Faiths & Pantheons? WTF?

[Corinth]

Kaptain Kantrip, you've never read the the Illiad or the Eddas, have you?

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

No, but I watched Jason & The Argonauts.

 

[Nightfall]

*sighs* It seems the classics are no longer taught, just rehashed by an uncaring Hollywood. Oh well...

 

[Kai Lord]

*sighs* It seems the classics are no longer taught, just rehashed by an uncaring Hollywood. Oh well...

Well aren't we melodramatic. I mean, if "Kaptain Kantrip" hasn't read the Iliad, I guess the terrorists *have* won....

 

[Nightfall]

Nah they won well before Kap even THOUGHT about reading Greek literature. Besides I don't bemoan that as much as I bemoan these facts:

1. Bobby Clarke is STILL running the Flyers organization

2. Your president (I didn't vote for him!) has no consistant view on ANY foreign policy, much less any clue as to run a balanced domestic agenda.

3. The fact that people like to blow themselves up, and then the other people can't stop the senseless bloodshed, proves humanity to be inhumane.

4. The fact I argue ANY of this on a BB. It doesn't matter.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Kaptain Kantrip, you've never read the the Illiad or the Eddas, have you?

I don't remember anyone fighting the gods in the Illiad (or the Odyssey, for that matter). Sure, the gods were constantly meddling and even disguising themselves as human to enhance their meddling, but... well, maybe I am getting old, but I just don't remember any human vs. god battles.

I always thought a stat block for an avatar could be useful (too many Thieves' World books as a kid), but gods are gods to me, and that means even high level parties should have no chance to kill a god. I would say that WotC's including stats for gods, which probably does encourage DMs using them as high-level monsters, is mainly an indication not of them trying to promote such behavior but of them believing that is what people want. And since I have no doubt they do market research...

 

[Lazarus Smith]

Okay guys, first off, I feel ripped by Faiths and Pantheons. I think that the work that the designers did was fantastic, but too much stuff is left out.

As a DM, I want stats on all the gods. Not to have them fight the PCs ( a futile endevor that will only bring about dead PCs), but rather as a measuring stick against other gods and demonlords and such.

Why do I feel ripped? Where are the stats on the demi-human gods? Are they going to get thier own book in a couple of months? If so, will it reprint what is in this book, and just tack on more info?

Secondly, the art is way too inconsistant. The pictures of Tempus and Loviatar should feel insulted to be included with those of Mystra and Tymora. At least they finally got Sune right.

All in all, for thirty f'n bucks, I think the book could have been one third bigger, and one third better. I feel that it was rushed in a way that many good products are. Am I flaming Mr. Mona and the other creators? Hell No!! I just feel that the higher -ups were in a hurry. I would have rather bought this book two months from now, and had a better book. (and I would have liked it if they had left out the non-human pantheons, and gave them thier own, expanded book. I would rather buy two great products than one half-@ssed one and one mostly reprinted one.

 

[seankreynolds]

I'm all for it. Gods can go down under mortal assault. Gods can die by mortal hands. That means that PCs can do it, ergo gods must have stats.

Except that in FR, a mortal can't permanently kill a deity without the direct backing of a deity.

 

[Black Omega]

I don't remember anyone fighting the gods in the Illiad (or the Odyssey, for that matter). Sure, the gods were constantly meddling and even disguising themselves as human to enhance their meddling, but... well, maybe I am getting old, but I just don't remember any human vs. god battles.

It's been years since I read the Illiad. Hm..have to change that. But I clearly recall Diomedes laying the smackdown on Ares pretty decisively. One of the Goddess, perhaps Aphrodite, was also injured and complained to Zeus about it. Now, the mortals injuring the gods had divine help, but there were some mortal v. god battles.

 

[Nightfall]

Which just means you need to find a guy like Gargauth, and you're set!

As for Greek Literature, yes there was a fight between Achilles and Ares on the fields, as well as having Athena back Achilles.

Secondly, high level parties DON'T fight gods, not unless they enjoy short lifespans, and especially even shorter afterlives. As for this idea that WotC didn't do research, I'd suggest you look at the D&Dmg forum. We certainly have a lot of discussion and not much of it on god slaying. At least not unless we enjoy whole sale party slaughters. The REASON gods are made with stats, is, not every god is going succeed at lifting up a magically sealed door or know the answers to things. I also think people think of gods as OMNIOPOTENT and OMNISCIENT. The fact is, they aren't for the most part. IF they were, a lot of the FUN stuff that happens in campaign worlds would make sense.