Falcon and winter solider

[Enevhar Aldarion]

That would have the opposite effect. It would just reinforce denier's bias that mainstream media is inclusive propaganda and disconnected from reality.

Which is why I said earlier that whatever they do in this series to address racism, it will not change how any real racists think or act, but it may have the positive impact of getting people who have lesser degrees of biases and prejudices to look at how they talk and act and change for the better. A lot of the bad in the real world does not come from the outright racism, it comes from people living a lifetime with the more subtle stuff, who never see it or never realize it is so insidiously interwoven in our society. The only way the hate-filled racism will end is if all the racists stopped teaching the young how to hate and stopped converting marginalized adults.

 

[Umbran]

Which is why I said earlier that whatever they do in this series to address racism, it will not change how any real racists think or act...

So, a language suggestion I've seen elsewhere that may help - "Racism" is anything that has a disproportionate impact upon a group of people of particular origins, ancestry, etc. "Bigotry" is when that disproportional impact is willful and desired.

So, recent attacks on Asian-Americans? Bigotry.

The banker in the first episode? Racist, but probably not a bigot. He may honestly think he is on their side, but seemed terribly clueless as to the impact of what he was doing. If someone he cared about carefully enlightened him, he might well change his ways for the better.

So, what is done on the show probably won't change many bigots. It might have impact on racism.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Okay. I finally got around to watching the first episode yesterday. Took a day to think it over a bit before coming to this thread. I kind of wish that I had taken more time, as I was not prepared for a lot of arguments in this thread that seem to be supporting the banker guy. I should have known. This is the internet, after all.

I loved the first episode. My expectations weren't very high, as I never found Falcon or the Winter Soldier that compelling of characters in the MCU, especially when compared to more major ones (Spider-Man, Post-Ragnarok Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow, etc). However, this show sincerely impressed me. I probably should have guessed that this would happen, as this is Marvel and they are pretty well known for making good movies and WandaVision was highly enjoyable, but I really like what I saw in the first episode and hope to see more like that.

My only critique of the episode is that it kind of felt . . . "busy", for the lack of a better word. Kind of all over the place, I guess. I understand that it needs to introduce the shows basis, get us to care about the main characters, let us know what's been up recently in the world after the Blip, and so much more, but it really felt like there was a lot going on. There was the action scene in the beginning, which was cool, but I feel like it was tacked on or a bit disconnected from the rest of the episode. Then, there was all of the stuff about Falcon giving the Shield to the Smithsonian, his family stuff, introducing the villain of the series, and all of the stuff with Bucky's PTSD, guilt, therapy, and making amends with both those victimized by him and with himself. Then, of course, there was the introduction of the new Captain America at the end.

The episode was long enough to fit all of that stuff in there, but it felt a bit too stuffed full for me. Not that I'm really complaining, I liked pretty much everything in the episode, it was just a bit difficult to keep track of every plot line when there are 5+ going on at once (obligatory action scene, trying to get a loan for the boat, new Captain America, Bucky's therapy and redemption, the Flag Smasher, etc).

Anyone agree with me?

 

[Imaculata]

So, what is done on the show probably won't change many bigots. It might have impact on racism.

Our culture is shaped by representation. Having a big show like this address these issues in a well written way can make more people think about it.

How this will affect our society is hard to predict, but I feel it is important.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So, a language suggestion I've seen elsewhere that may help - "Racism" is anything that has a disproportionate impact upon a group of people of particular origins, ancestry, etc. "Bigotry" is when that disproportional impact is willful and desired.

So, recent attacks on Asian-Americans? Bigotry.

The banker in the first episode? Racist, but probably not a bigot. He may honestly think he is on their side, but seemed terribly clueless as to the impact of what he was doing. If someone he cared about carefully enlightened him, he might well change his ways for the better.

So, what is done on the show probably won't change many bigots. It might have impact on racism.

I went looking online first to make sure I got the degrees of racism in the right order of severity for when I posted. Mostly I saw bias, then prejudice, then bigotry, then racism. But some sites considered bigotry and racism the same, with bigotry being on a personal level and racism as bigotry on a large scale, as the systemic racism we have today. I won't even get into the subtle versus the overt or this will spill into the political crap we have all managed to avoid so far.

Speaking of political, I wonder if this series will tell us the name of the MCU version of the US President. We had that discussion over in the WandaVision thread, but who was President during the Snap, or after, has not been named by Marvel yet.

 

[hopeless]

I wonder why hasn't Pepper hired Sam to train a new generation of "Falcons"?
The suit looks very useful and it could be a handy pr boost of they're used to help rescue people say in high rises or apartment blocks on fire and given it takes time get a ladder up there having someone ferrying people clear or establishing ropes to the top so they can easily evacuate those buildings?
After all his suit has clearly been modified by Tony Stark so it shouldn't stretch things that these missions are Stark related that also involves the military occasionally.
Would that work?

 

[Blue]

There's no real way for us to tell, though. We don't even know whether "the old rules" means pre-Blip, or during the Blip, or last week before they changed them yet again.

If you include the following line it's pretty clear it's post-Snap that the rules changed.

"Under the old terms, sure. But these days, what, with everyone just showing up, well, things tightened up."

(Source: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - S01E01 - New World Order [Transcript] - Scraps from the loft)

 

[Umbran]

I wonder why hasn't Pepper hired Sam to train a new generation of "Falcons"?

Do you want the Armor Wars? Because, proliferation of this technology is how you get the Armor Wars.

 

[Blue]

I wonder why hasn't Pepper hired Sam to train a new generation of "Falcons"?
The suit looks very useful and it could be a handy pr boost of they're used to help rescue people say in high rises or apartment blocks on fire and given it takes time get a ladder up there having someone ferrying people clear or establishing ropes to the top so they can easily evacuate those buildings?
After all his suit has clearly been modified by Tony Stark so it shouldn't stretch things that these missions are Stark related that also involves the military occasionally.
Would that work?

There was a comment early on in the cafe that the Falcon suit was Stark-tech. I wonder if that means explicitly The Falcon's suit, rebuild by Tony after it lost it's wings in Winter Soldier, or if the whole Falcon project was from back when Stark was selling to the military before the original Iron Man. In Winter Soldier it did come up that there was only one more of them, and it was being stored in a vault on a military base, so it sounds like something out of production or unique. But if it was built for the military by a normal supplier or built by the military I would expect that there would be more of them by now, when one is good enough to propel one to Avenger levels.

 

[Umbran]

I went looking online first to make sure I got the degrees of racism in the right order of severity for when I posted.

Yeah. The problem is that not everyone has read the same sites. Language use varies. I'm suggesting a simple convention for use locally, here in this thread, so we are all using the same definitions.

Speaking of political, I wonder if this series will tell us the name of the MCU version of the US President. We had that discussion over in the WandaVision thread, but who was President during the Snap, or after, has not been named by Marvel yet.

I don't think they will. I don't think it serves the story to do so.