Falcon and winter solider

[MarkB]

I think it's the next character in the Metal Gear series, Solider Snake.

 

[Umbran]

One implication is that it seems to be getting easier to isolate the serum - Erskine needed to bombard it with Vitarays, Isaiah Bradleys serum killed most of the test subjects, Banner triggered something with major side effects using Gamma rays, HYDRA required a slow drip but Nargles working in a container got it to work via a quick shot/swig with no obvious side effects.

Unless Nargle was some superior genius who is to say who the next person will be able to isolate and use...

We should separate between how easy it is to isolate from refinement of it once you've got it.

Nagel says he was recruited by HYRDA for the Winter Soldier program. Then, when HYDRA largely dissolved in 2014 as a result of events in The Winter Soldier, he was recruited by the CIA. Only then did he get access to Isaiah's blood. So, we are talking years of groundwork + access to samples, which doesn't exactly sound "easy".

 

[MarkB]

We should separate between how easy it is to isolate from refinement of it once you've got it.

Nagel says he was recruited by HYRDA for the Winter Soldier program. Then, when HYDRA largely dissolved in 2014 as a result of events in The Winter Soldier, he was recruited by the CIA. Only then did he get access to Isaiah's blood. So, we are talking years of groundwork + access to samples, which doesn't exactly sound "easy".

However, when he returned after the Blip and found that the project had been disbanded, there's no indication that he needed to recover any samples before he went to work for the Power Broker and produced his working serum within weeks. Which suggests that he'd already gone beyond just rebuilding previous versions of the formula, and was able, essentially, to create it from memory with appropriate raw materials.

That does suggest that his self-description as the new Erskine wasn't entirely an idle boast. Having laid the groundwork by studying samples of previous generations of the serum, he was now able to produce and modify it from scratch. It suggests an alternative approach for any future endeavour to reproduce the formula - instead of trying to reverse-engineer it from existing subjects, find someone who's already done the analysis and steal their notes.

 

[Umbran]

Which suggests that he'd already gone beyond just rebuilding previous versions of the formula, and was able, essentially, to create it from memory with appropriate raw materials.

Yes, well, remember, he didn't live through those five years. To him, he was working on the project just days ago. Of course it was still clearly remembered.

That does suggest that his self-description as the new Erskine wasn't entirely an idle boast.

So, interesting factoid - in the comics, "Nagel" was a fake name Erskine used while fleeing from the Red Skull before he got to work on Steve Rogers. After Erskine was killed, an assistant on the project picked up that name to carry on the work... that eventually led to Isaiah Bradley's serum.

I am perfectly willing to accept that the MCU Nagel was, in fact, a fantastic genius researcher, and not some shlub. He got to stand on Erskine's shoulders, but that doesn't mean he wasn't darned good at the job. I mean, he had all the ethical sense of a rabid weasel, but technically smart, I'll give him.

 

[trappedslider]

 

[MarkB]

Just to mention, there is a mid-credits scene in episode 5.

 

[Stalker0]

I'll throw this in spoilers since its shortly afterward for Episode 5.

Spoiler

I continue to like Zemo, just when you think he's going to zig, he zags. I like that he is not rushing off to be a mustache twirling villain that I think many are expecting.

This episode probably has the most heart of the show so far. While some of Falcon's hesitancy to take the shield was noted before, I think it was really crystalized in this episode. I like how ultimately the answer to Isaiah's treatment for Falcon is not anger, nor sadness....its determination. He takes the shield to continue the fight, so that Isaiah, and all the men like him, are not lost to history. That is Steve Rogers reborn, and that's why he has the shield. While Bucky has the body of Captain America, Falcon carries the heart.

It also highlights for me that this show really could have had a few more episodes. Its just finally getting good, we are getting into some bigger stuff with Falcon, and there is still some much to dissect with Bucky (I like that Bucky just apologies to Falcon about the Black man holding the shield, as he just straight up admits that neither he nor Steve thought about that and how it would feel when they hatched the plan....no excuses, just straight up and honest).

I also like that while Walker is clearly not mentally stable now on the serum, but you can still respect and appreciate what he's going through. While not the same as Isaiah by any stretch, you can see the same "washing our hands of this man"....a man who has served his country with honor for many years, because he is no longer convenient.

Yeah just a lot of stuff I liked in this episode.

 

[Tonguez]

It was really noticeable how John Walkers fighting techniques are so distinct from Steve Rogers, he portrays a much more brutal style v Steves more technical big kick. They've created an interesting character story which touches on some sensitive themes.

and Nick Furys girlfriend!

I did like the pace of this episode, though it ended abruptly as I was wanting more, and Im a bit sad that this was the penultimate episode.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Haven’t watched 5 yet, but just wanted to note how the final shot of 4 got a really visceral response from my wife and I, and my first thought was that Walker just killed Captain America.

 

[trappedslider]

so the word is that Val was supposed to be introduced in black widow's movie