Falling off the 4ed bandwagon

[ExploderWizard]

No somebody else is always driving the wagon... you are just along for the ride you quit making your choices (hah) at least that is the negative connotation of "band wagon". Its kind of the lemming heard insult in a different form.

Edit - maybe thats wrong and its just the All or Nothing fallacy.

In any event I think people just decided it wasnt meant insultingly... whatever term was used.

Even if you are just along for the ride, if you become a disgruntled passenger then you can just hop off and climb aboard a different wagon, or not as you choose.

 

[pawsplay]

Falling off the bandwagon just means that you were an enthusiastic supporter of a shared cause, but realized at some point you no longer are. It's an insult only in the sense that "popular" is an insult. If I say, "I am no longer doing the popular thing," I am probably criticizing somebody in some sense, but I'm not saying being popular is a bad thing, right? If anything, the title suggests the OP may have realized that not all their reasons for playing 4e in the first place were intrinsic ones, but that they were excited and other people were playing it, too.

 

[Garthanos]

It's an insult only in the sense that "popular" is an insult.

Usually used in context implying those on the band wagon are liking something because it was popular instead of for a reason.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Usually used in context implying those on the band wagon are liking something because it was popular instead of for a reason.

Whats wrong with that? Being popular IS a reason.

 

[Dausuul]

And not 3E? Doesn't this apply to D&D in general? Bring the monsters to 0 HP to kill them? Do you mean that there are no longer any save or die spells (which would still bring them to 0 HP...)

Save-or-die could be argued as reducing the monsters to 0 hp, but it certainly isn't "slogging through their hit points." It circumvents the whole hit point mechanic - the monster may have had ten hit points or ten thousand before you nailed it with finger of death, but it's just as dead either way. 4E ensures that all monsters take several hits to kill, with the exception of minions which only ever take one hit.

That's not to say I want to see save-or-die return in its original form. There were reasons why 4E got rid of it, and they're valid reasons; few players appreciate having a character unexpectedly zorched out of existence, and it can be a real letdown to have the BBEG die in the first round of combat after rolling a 1 on his Fort save.

But I do think the game would benefit from some tricks that clever PCs could use to take down monsters without having to grind them down hit point by hit point. For instance, situational powers that require some setting up, but leave a monster crippled or dead when you do set them up right. At the moment, the only option I can think of along those lines is making the monster fall off something really high. (Yeah, I know, that's still hit point damage, but it's a huge amount of hit point damage compared to regular attack powers; find a high enough high thing and it can easily be an insta-kill.)

 

[pawsplay]

Usually used in context implying those on the band wagon are liking something because it was popular instead of for a reason.

Which is sometimes a valid perspective, apart from the black-and-white formulation. People rarely do anything for only one reason.

 

[Barastrondo]

Whats wrong with that? Being popular IS a reason.

Nothing's wrong with liking something because it's popular (among other reasons), but claiming that someone other than yourself likes something because it's popular has a pretty common and clear implication that there are no other reasons worth talking about.

I don't think there's much of a bandwagon either way as far as 4e love or hate goes; both are positions with solid foundations in play style and presentation as factors. There's plenty of factionalism, mind, but relatively little "this is what the cool kids are doing." "This is what my group is doing" seems to be the primary factor, mixed with "and I'm thrilled/and I would rather do something else."

 

[fuzzlewump]

At the moment, the only option I can think of along those lines is making the monster fall off something really high. (Yeah, I know, that's still hit point damage, but it's a huge amount of hit point damage compared to regular attack powers; find a high enough high thing and it can easily be an insta-kill.)

Every class as far as I know has some kind of forced movement power somewhere along the line. Really, 4E is probably the best for your example, as the entire party has the opportunity to do it. If they don't have powers, which can happen if they avoid them, then they can always just use bull rush.

Not to mention whether or not there is a high cliff is entirely dependent on the DM, or if its 3E, if there's a higherish level caster around (Stoneshape?)

 

[Fifth Element]

Bandwagons make me think of parades and popcorn. It's really a compliment.

People don't use it as a compliment. When sports team X makes the finals they suddenly have a lot more fans, and these new fans are said to be "jumping on the bandwagon" by the existing fans. When the team loses the finals and returns to mediocrity, these new fans are nowhere to be found, having moved on to something new and shiny.

So it's derogatory in that it means "you only like this because it's new and shiny, and when something newer and shinier comes along you'll be gone." Now that can be interpreted in a way that isn't insulting, but the general use of it is as an insult.

 

[Garthanos]

Which is sometimes a valid perspective, apart from the black-and-white formulation. People rarely do anything for only one reason.

"Usage Context" counts ... when used in the phrase "falling off the bandwagon" or even "He climbed on the bandwagon (like everybody else)", is it ever meant in a positive light as a component of a bigger well thought out set of reasons? or does it imply specific lack of that and a lack of individuality to boot.