Falling off the 4ed bandwagon

[DaveMage]

If the word "bandwagon" is enough to rile people's feathers, then I really don't see how any friendly debate is possible....

 

[Garthanos]

If the word "bandwagon" is enough to rile people's feathers, then I really don't see how any friendly debate is possible....

;-), we were debating if it was a feather ruffler

 

[fuzzlewump]

If the word "bandwagon" is enough to rile people's feathers, then I really don't see how any friendly debate is possible....

Why? Friendly debate normally attacks arguments and ideas, where as "bandwagon" is attacking the person (with a feather. When I read the title I noticed it, but I was cooled down the quarter-degree it raised me by the well-written OP.)

 

[Fifth Element]

If the word "bandwagon" is enough to rile people's feathers, then I really don't see how any friendly debate is possible....

It obviously wasn't enough, since the discussion has been civil. I only brought it up as a point of interest, since normally on a messageboard the slightest slight is enough to bring out the rage.

But really, if I call you ignorant and you react badly (which is likely), and I say "I only meant that you lack knowledge about this particular thing, I didn't mean that you were unintelligent or anything," should I get a free pass on my choice of words? Perhaps if English is not my first language.

 

[Barastrondo]

I would compare it to "bitterness," actually. If you describe yourself as bitter or embittered, that's very different from choosing to describe someone else as bitter or embittered. Unless that other person has already referred to him/herself as such, of course. In the one instance it's a simple description; in the other instance it's a potentially dismissive ascribing of intent.

If there were a thread entitled "Bitter about 4e," consider the difference if the original poster were describing himself or if he were describing other people. And if he were describing himself, would it then be fair to use "bitter" to describe everyone else who disliked 4e? I don't think so. A term can go from perfectly neutral to viciously loaded with a shift of context. Incautious use of those words is no small part of why discussions turn uncivil (which this one still hasn't yet, nicely enough).

 

[Fifth Element]

I would compare it to "bitterness," actually. If you describe yourself as bitter or embittered, that's very different from choosing to describe someone else as bitter or embittered. Unless that other person has already referred to him/herself as such, of course. In the one instance it's a simple description; in the other instance it's a potentially dismissive ascribing of intent.

Very well put.

 

[Dausuul]

[deleted by mistake... d'oh!]

 

[BryonD]

Bandwagon has some negative implication because it indicates that a certain portion of the people engaged in whatever the bandwagon is are doing so purely because other people are.

4E is most certainly a bandwagon.
3E was most certainly a bandwagon.
2E was most certainly a bandwagon.

A great portion of the people who play an edition of Dungeons and Dragons during its turn of being the current version play it because it is "Dungeons and Dragons".

You can get offended by that.
It doesn't make it any less true.

 

[pawsplay]

Nothing's wrong with liking something because it's popular (among other reasons), but claiming that someone other than yourself likes something because it's popular has a pretty common and clear implication that there are no other reasons worth talking about.

But the OP was talking about himself.

I don't think there's much of a bandwagon either way as far as 4e love or hate goes; both are positions with solid foundations in play style and presentation as factors. There's plenty of factionalism, mind, but relatively little "this is what the cool kids are doing." "This is what my group is doing" seems to be the primary factor, mixed with "and I'm thrilled/and I would rather do something else."

Oh, I definitely heard the band on the wagon playing some music. I was even informed on this message board that in months after 4e was out, 3e fans would all give up and convert anyway. And, of course, there was the gnome...

 

[Barastrondo]

But the OP was talking about himself.

Yes. But if anyone complains that they're not fond of the bandwagon as a general conceit bandied about, particularly by people who "were never on it in the first place," you understand why, perhaps?

Oh, I definitely heard the band on the wagon playing some music. I was even informed on this message board that in months after 4e was out, 3e fans would all give up and convert anyway. And, of course, there was the gnome...

Which gnome? The marketing department gnome?

I dunno. I still don't see too much of a bandwagon either way, particularly in the period that the game is out. The people I know who play 4e do it for all the usual reasons, and the people I know who play 3e do it for all the usual reasons. There's unfortunately still a certain level of emotional investment on both sides of the fence (among only certain players, mind) to disregard the other side's reasons for doing so — to say "you'll eat up whatever WotC gives you" or "you just want casters to keep dominating" or whatever. But some level of that is sadly inevitable, just as there are sports fans who can't want their own team to win without focusing on how much they want the other team to be humiliated.