Fantasy Grounds Unity KS Announced

DMZ2112

Chaotic Looseleaf
Free game content; Nope, not true, their is free game content for numerous game systems (D&D 1e, 3, 3.5, 5e, PF, Savage World, etc) available for free on their community forums and some for 5E on the DMsGuild. It is, admittedly, only a tiny fraction of what is available world-wide.

As for free content that is behing a "gate", maybe you mean the D&D Basic Rules & the 5E SRD? I know at one time they were not distributed with the free license of FG, but that is no longer true, and hasn't been for some time.

I have no idea how much free content is available for Roll20 other than the 5E SRD and 5E Basic Rules. What else is there?

The only free content that concerns me is official rulesets. I'm not interested in fancruft, and I'm not interested in having to manually import readily available open source content into a system I am paying for.

https://roll20.net/compendium/

Yes Roll 20 you can play and GM completely for free. In that use case, Roll20 is cheaper, no doubt, no argument. But, you have severe limitation on a free Roll20 account (storage size, feature access, sharing content between campaigns, etc) And content you buy can only be shred to ONE campaign. But you can play and GM no doubt.

If we're talking about average use cases, which you appear to be keen on, the average user is never going to hit these limits.

Your argument seems to be that you get less for the money you opt to spend on Roll20 than you do for the money you opt to spend on FG. This is only logical -- FG has an upfront buy-in comparable to an enterprise application, while Roll20 does not.

Now, on FG, for $4/month or $39 one-time you get a license that has no feature limitations (you can share your purchased content in an unlimited number of campaigns, you can customize the ruleset and most anything else. The only limit is that if you host/run a game, all your players also need a standard or ultimate license.

So, just so we're clear, the actual cost of a Standard license is $20/month or $156, spread across a group of five.

So, if you are going to spend money on a license, either the Plus, Pro, Standard or Ultimate; FG is the same price or cheaper after 10 months.

If you are going to spend money on a license.

I'm cutting all this filler about licensed paid content, and you should thank me, because the real message here is that it's shocking FG charges as much as Roll20 does for licensed content on top of their base cost.

If you are familiar with FG, and understand how to use the combat tracker, effects and PC actions, so much of the book keeping is take care of for you that combat is a fast, really fast.

Honest question: does it speed up your game prep? Do you spend less time preparing per session using FG than you would running live?
 

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The only free content that concerns me is official rulesets. I'm not interested in fancruft, and I'm not interested in having to manually import readily available open source content into a system I am paying for.

...

I'm cutting all this filler about licensed paid content, and you should thank me, because the real message here is that it's shocking FG charges as much as Roll20 does for licensed content on top of their base cost.

Actually if you're only talking about D&D 5e content then it is significantly cheaper on Fantasy Grounds than on Roll20. Also the cost of licensed products are dictated by the owners of said products, not by Fantasy Grounds.

There are other products which are significantly cheaper. Call of Cthulhu products are very affordable for everything you get, Castles & Crusades is inexpensive, and Savage Worlds also gives a lot for such a little price. And Symbaroum just launched today on Fantasy Grounds with plans to bring all the other content across. Don't forget about Piazo as that entails a lot of licensed content.

If you want licensed content then Fantasy Grounds is the VTT to play it on.

Happy gaming!
 

Chris633

Explorer
I am a Fantasy Grounds user. Previously I used roll20 and just paper and a webcam. In my opinion, Fantasy Grounds is just a better vtt and worth the price of admission.

Game prep is equitable across platforms. Just different. You save time in some places but loose it in others. Where it shines is during gameplay. Combat is faster. A lot faster. I don’t have to wait for my players to do math, look up modifiers or many other book keeping tasks. It just does it for you. Being able to share content with players is both easy and seamless. So I am excited to see a newer and improved version. And I will happily pay to upgrade my license. As an online GM, it just makes my life easier.
 

Ditto

I am a Fantasy Grounds user. Previously I used roll20 and just paper and a webcam. In my opinion, Fantasy Grounds is just a better vtt and worth the price of admission.

Game prep is equitable across platforms. Just different. You save time in some places but loose it in others. Where it shines is during gameplay. Combat is faster. A lot faster. I don’t have to wait for my players to do math, look up modifiers or many other book keeping tasks. It just does it for you. Being able to share content with players is both easy and seamless. So I am excited to see a newer and improved version. And I will happily pay to upgrade my license. As an online GM, it just makes my life easier.
 

cbwjm

Legend
Finally. I've been waiting for this for years. The current version of fantasy grounds I found to be rather clunky when I trialed it. Hoping this will be a smoother more user friendly version.
 

The only free content that concerns me is official rulesets. I'm not interested in fancruft, and I'm not interested in having to manually import readily available open source content into a system I am paying for.

https://roll20.net/compendium/

So following that link I see the following official source content available on Roll20:
- D&D 5E
- Pathfinder
- StarFinder
- Dungeon World
- Drama World

FG has the following official sources/content:
- D&D 5E
- Pathfinder
- StarFinder
- Call of Cthulu (6E & 7E)
- Savage Worlds
- Mutants & Masterminds
- Castles & Crusades (this one might be $10 for everything, not sure)
- FATECore
- Rolemaster
- Traveller
- Symborium
- 13th Age
- WOIN
- Dead Lands

If we're talking about average use cases, which you appear to be keen on, the average user is never going to hit these limits.
Says who? I use Roll20, rarely, and I have hit these limits. But, regardless, they are serious limits (only able to share what you purchase to 1, 3, or 5 campaigns? Restrictions on moving characters or other content between campaigns?) and each individual should be aware of them and take them into consideration. Its not up to us to say they should be ignored.

Your argument seems to be that you get less for the money you opt to spend on Roll20 than you do for the money you opt to spend on FG. This is only logical -- FG has an upfront buy-in comparable to an enterprise application, while Roll20 does not.
Including the upfront cost (i.e. a license), in most cases you get more for your money with FG, after a reasonable amount of time. You can buy the PHB, MM, DMG, and one-time standard license on FG for $129, and that is good forever.
On Roll 20 you can buy the PHB and MM for $80. But you can't buy the DMG at all. And then if you want to use those books in more than one campaign, you have to pay $5/month. So in 10 months, you have broken even with Roll20, plus you still don't have the DMG in your VTT.

So, just so we're clear, the actual cost of a Standard license is $20/month or $156, spread across a group of five.
If you buy the most expensive set of licenses for that use case. Why would you not just go with an Ultimate? Then it would be $10/month or $149. Or if you insisted on Standard licenses, then buy the 4 pack from Steam?


I'm cutting all this filler about licensed paid content, and you should thank me, because the real message here is that it's shocking FG charges as much as Roll20 does for licensed content on top of their base cost.
That is just flat out wrong, again. Is that why you cut out and ignored all the quoted prices? For most official content, FG is about 60% of price of the same official content as Roll20. In general 5E stuff is $30 on FG and $50 on Roll 20.

Honest question: does it speed up your game prep? Do you spend less time preparing per session using FG than you would running live?
Honest answer, it depends.

So if I run live using nothing but a dry erase map and generic mini's and fly by the seat of my pants (i.e. nothing more than a plot and encounter outlines), then "live" prep is less time.

But that's because in FG (and to some extent in Roll20) I have full color maps, I have custom images for creatures, and they are pre-placed on the maps. I have treasure parcels ready to be distribute and XP is automatically calculated and can be assigned and distributed with a couple mouse clicks.

And that makes my combats, whether I am playing online or using FG on my TV for a face to face game, take 1/2 to 1/3 the time it takes in person. As others have said, combat in FG is fast.

So I can prep fast for a live session, but then it is all theater of the mind or maps outlined on the fly or I pull one of the many laminated maps from my stash. I may be using gnoll mini's for my army of elven bandits, or fire elemental for a hill giant. And, combat takes forever because I have to track hitpoints, look up ACs, attack bonuses and weapon damages. Calculate spell DCs, etc.
 

Finally. I've been waiting for this for years. The current version of fantasy grounds I found to be rather clunky when I trialed it. Hoping this will be a smoother more user friendly version.
I don't want to discourage you, but if you are expecting a different interface, don't. Their might be some minor changes, but the expectation is the look and feel will be the same. FGU will just have more performance and new functionality.
 

Myzzrym

Explorer
So they’re sorta re-writing their software in a different programming language?

So how does that affect the users of FG? Does it make FG do something it couldn’t do before?

(Not being awkward; I just haven’t the foggiest what this means).

Basically yes. It's not just a different programming language, you can consider Unity as sort of a helper - there's tons of things it can already do on its own, so instead of having to code everything every time you want to add a new feature, in Unity there's a high chance that there's already bits and pieces you can use to do what you want.

Because there's pre-build solutions, there's also a high chance that refactoring (basically rewriting the code) will help making a more robust / better quality product. That being said, often it also means that a lot of time will be spent re-making what already exists (but better) instead of purely working on new features.
 

mrrockitt

Explorer
Been looking forward to this!

In my opinion Fantasy Grounds is already far superior to Roll20 in it's current form so can only see this making it even better.

As an Ultimate License owner I am *little* concerned about extra license costs but it was to be expected I guess.
I also found FG to be a cheaper option than Roll20 when I added all the official WOTC books.
And no, Fantasy Grounds, Roll20 or any other VTT is no substitute to playing face-to-face but not all of us have that choice available to us and VTT's do a great job in that situation.
 
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DMZ2112

Chaotic Looseleaf
That is just flat out wrong, again. Is that why you cut out and ignored all the quoted prices? For most official content, FG is about 60% of price of the same official content as Roll20. In general 5E stuff is $30 on FG and $50 on Roll 20.

Whoops. That was sloppy of me. I looked at the first entry on the list and did not scan down. My apologies. There are two fiscal responsibility arguments here, one against the exorbitant cost of FG, and one against having to pay twice for game content, and in the heat of the moment I made the mistake of conflating them.

Honest answer, it depends.

I appreciate your response.

I've said my piece, and continue to stand by it, barring the above. You may proceed with your shilling without further interruption from me. :)
 

Whoops. That was sloppy of me. I looked at the first entry on the list and did not scan down. My apologies. There are two fiscal responsibility arguments here, one against the exorbitant cost of FG, and one against having to pay twice for game content, and in the heat of the moment I made the mistake of conflating them.
Exorbitant is a very emotionally charged word, and it's a statement of opinion. But, each to their own.

As for paying for game content twice, as I have stated, you have never had to do that. I certainly haven't. I made the choice to buy my content in FG, so I don't have the hard books. Have never needed them. FG has what it calls "Reference Manual" versions included. These are effectively an e-book. Yes it means I have to read the books inside of FG, but that is not a problem for me. It can be for some. Or, you could choose to forego the FG version and just use a physical version.

And, the price for a book on FG is really not much different from teh price on Amazon, so again, price is really a red herring, imo.

Not having a physical book means all I have to do is carry a 4lb laptop to where ever I game and I have what would be hundreds of pounds of physical books with me. I can book mark them, I can do a digital search, I can link to specific pages and share those links, and I can share 1 copy of a book with as many players are in my game as I want. So while one player is looking up combat actions, another is looking up a spell description and a third is look at the options for leveling up their character, all with one copy. Can't do that with only 1 physical book.

For me, digital (FG) books are a better investment than physical. That's not the same for everyone, but to think that a digital book is inferior to a physical one for everyone is just inaccurate.

I've said my piece, and continue to stand by it, barring the above. You may proceed with your shilling without further interruption from me. :)
lol :)

Feel free to interrupt if you want. Thoughtful and informed discussion is the best way to discuss something, besides, it's beneficial for both the sides as they get alternate views to consider and hopefully re-evaluate and build a stronger basis for their views.
 

Chris633

Explorer
Honestly, I have seen this in other threads, the whole debate between Fantasy Grounds vs Roll20 vs other. It’s a silly debate because all of these are just tools. Each GM and game group will have a different work flow, preferences, etc.. The style of GM and group often will be what dictates the best tool for the job. For my GM and workflow style, Fantasy Grounds is the best available option. However, that will differ from GM to GM. Fantasy Grounds will feel exorbitant to a GM whose workflow/game style needs are different and is satisfied by a different and potentially free alternative. I don’t regret my purchase of FG as it better satisfies my needs than Roll20 did. But that is me. The superiority of one over the other really is a subjective thing specific to each and every individual GM/group.
 

Reynard

Legend
I am excited because the one weakness FG has had in my opinion has been the ability to draw maps on the fly. I am hoping that the Unity engine will allow you access to a digital dry erase board, for lack of a better term. I tend to run games that are very improvisational in nature and FG supports that in a lot of ways -- but it is easier for me to sketch out a random set piece than it is rummage through a big library of pre-made maps.

As to the cost of the upgrade: I am an Ultimate license holder. I chose to do that so my friends, some of whom are tighter on money than I, would not have to pay to be able to play. That was my choice and it was a good one. I will buy the Ultimate license again if I have to (although I may spend some time subscribing to make sure I like the new version) for the same reason. Unless they stealth charge for content I already purchased, I don't mind paying for a new product. Why wouldn't I expect a software company to charge me for making something I want?

What I would like to see happen though is for PDFs of rulebooks to be bundled with VTT files for ease of reading outside of the VTT. Or for WotC to realize selling a PDF with the physical copy is the way business is done in the modern RPG industry.
 


Since pricing was (not surprisingly) a big debate in this thread, FGU pricing was announced this morning on the stream;

There will still be Standard, Ultimate and Demo

Post-Kickstarter Pricing
Standard $39
Ultimate $149

Kickstarter Pricing
All Kickstarter backers gain access to Beta
Newcomer Standard: $35
Newcomer to Ultimate: $135

Rookie: Bought it in 2018-2019
FGC Ultimate to FGU Ultimate for $30
FGC Standard to FGU Standard for $15

Veteran: Bought it 2017 or prior
FGC Ultimate to FGU Ultimate for $60
FGC Standard to FGU Standard for $29

Monthly subscriptions:
There will be a separate monthly subscriptions. Same as today but FGU subscription or FGC subscription.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/foru...am-was-awesome&p=432631&viewfull=1#post432631
 

Chris633

Explorer
I was really surprised at how reasonable/generous the license upgrade pricing turned out to be. I was in no matter what, but that really made me happy to see how nicely they are taking care of their user base.
 


Retreater

Legend
I haven't watched the videos or read a lot of the new information, but I got an Ultimate last year and haven't used it a lot. (Was kind of difficult and steep learning curve; then ended up finding more than enough F2F games.) Then my computer that had everything installed on it went kaput. I have no idea if I can even still access my account, or if FGU will let me host campaigns on the cloud. (Anybody know if this update will allow us to install on a second computer?)
 

You can install on a second computer but can only use on one at a time.

Log in to your account on the Fantasy Grounds website to get your license key. If you bought from Steam your key will be there.

No cloud hosting that I'm aware but perhaps we'll find out more tomorrow when the kickstarter launches, but don't hold your breath.
 


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