Favored Souls & Domains

[sullivan]

I think so too. Our playgroup tend to challenge high-risk-high-return modules (or make such adventure by ourselves). The PCs of current campaign has killed Zagor (The Warlock of Firetop Mountain), broke-through the infamous Deathtrap Dungeon, slain the Snow Witch (Caverns of the Snow Witch) then now challenging the legendary "Tome of the Horrors". So, though traps and monsters are really tough, we are getting relatively good amount of money per encounter. Thus, both party cleric and wizard are holding not only all the situation-solving scrolls, but a lot of offensive & buff scrolls. It seems that there is no place for Sorcerer or FS in our party. I can't believe FS could handled all the wicked situations in those modules only with his limited spells known.

And, our party wizard and cleric enjoy using Wand of Raly's Mnemonic Enhancer (and other items such as Candle of Invocation). Thus, actually, tend to have more spells per day than Sorcerer or FS when situation is hot.

Hey, FS and Sorcerers can buy scrolls too. Make them you say? Bah, if you are anything close to cash rich why waste XP.

EDIT: Sure YMMV depending on the campaign world specifics of rarity of scrolls/wands/potions, other magic items, and NPCs willing and able to custom craft miscelaneous magic gadgets. Of course once you get to 12th level that is where Warlocks, to drag in another subpar caster class, actually get their most useful ability. Too bad that wasn't an ability that was implemented in a progression over multiple levels.

I think though the toughest part about FS and Sorcerers as hardcore casters is that they are always a level behind getting access to the next tier of spells. Bull's Str at 3rd totally rocks waiting till 4th. Dispel Magic, FB, etc. at 5th is sooo much more handy than waiting till 6th. Just like diverting a single level advancement away from your core caster class will hurt you always, that extra level needed for spell level progression is the gift that just won't stop giving. In particular it tends to hurts attack spells more than others because many attack spells have relatively small windows of usefulness along the level progression path.

That said the one thing that the FS has going for it is that it lends itself well to being a viable self-buffing, self supporting tank. I think moreso in some ways than the Paladin class. This is something which the Sorcerer class isn't without multiclassing out, and even that has it's limitations. HP of d4 puts a heavy reliance on Con (alas, I miss you my overpowered 3.0 toad familiar), +1 BAB every two levels means you'll need some serious buffing at all times to be a realistic threat, and arcane spell failure concerns raise that buff dependancy further. If you are going to try be a tank Sorcerer you might as well just go WarMage, it's got the tanking tweaks to help you try be Meat Shield Lite™. But still your aren't self-healing.

 

[Shin Okada]

Hey, FS and Sorcerers can buy scrolls too. Make them you say? Bah, if you are anything close to cash rich why waste XP.

Well, there are several reasons.

1. Half the cost. That means twice as many scrolls (and other items).
2. XP is, indeed, not that much a problem comparing to money. You only need 1/25 of the retail price. Even if you become a level behind your friends, you will soon catch up with them as you get 30% more XP. (And, as we tend to play very challenging modules, sometimes we get 2 levels worth of XPs. As we can level up only 1 per time, making magic items is a good idea).
3. You cannot always buy high-level scrolls. They are too expensive to buy in many place. Or the town simply does not have any casters with that high level.

Anyway, 1 is the biggest reason. We are changing almost all the money we got into magic items. So whether we can make or not is a big difference. We are burning cash for survival.

 

[sullivan]

Anyway, 1 is the biggest reason. We are changing almost all the money we got into magic items. So whether we can make or not is a big difference. We are burning cash for survival.

Then The Answer™ is so clear to me. After you clear out the Tomb of Horrors arrange some capital financing to refurbish it as an amusement park to build up a nice income stream along with a retirement nest egg.

---------

"Step right up gentlemen! Step right up! For your amusement and amazement, and at the ridiculous low price of 2 gp, you can impress and woo that special lady with your bravery *wink, wink* by sticking your head into The Devil's Maw! That's right sir, straight over there on the wall...just pop your head into that little tunnel...there in the middle of the mural."

"This one here? Wow, that looks absolutely pitch black. *whispering* I-i-it's safe right?"

*whispering* "Safe as the ground we walk on, my word on that."

*clink, clink*

"Thankyou and bless you noble and valient sir...no need to be shy...is that a real Rollex?...oh, no reason...just pop your head in, hurry up there's a line forming outside..."

*thud of a headless corpse falling to the floor*

"Psst, Thurg. Thurg! Get out here and get this one into the backroom with the others, and then you and Morrowhill can start emptying the pockets."

"Step right up gentlemen! Step right up! Who'll have the good fortune to be the next lucky customer?....

 

[Bryan898]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but the favored souls spells are based on two stats. Your bonus spells and ability to cast spells is based on your Charisma, while your save DC's is based on your Wisdom. I don't think any other spellcaster does that, and it really makes me not want to play a FS. Otherwise, I'd be a Pal4/FSx now

 

[ThirdWizard]

First thing I did was house rule them to be pure Wisdom casters.

There's an NPC favored soul tagging along with the party right now. I've had the Known list be problematic on occasion. She doesn't have near as much flexibility (Align Weapon would come in very useful next session). Also, typically, a Cleric can take some "throw away" spells every morning that probably won't come up but might be useful, but they can be dropped for a cure spell. A Favored Soul has to rely on scrolls for rarely used spells.

At level 5, I havn't found the Favored Soul to be all that good. Perhaps it will get better at higher levels.

 

[0-hr]

Actually, I just came across the Spontaneous Divine Caster variant in Unearthed Arcana and that will sovle all my problems. The main thing I wanted was to not have to second guess my spell selection every morning. That variant will allow that without gimping the character in so many other areas.

I think I have a good grip on how useful sontaneous casting is (I've played a couple dozen levels of each of Wizards and Sorcerors/Bards). The Sorceror/Wizard comparison is what really made me think "wow, these Favored Souls really get the shaft compared to Clerics!".

 

[Thanee]

I don't think any other spellcaster does that, and it really makes me not want to play a FS. Otherwise, I'd be a Pal4/FSx now

Uhm, but you know that a Pal also needs Wis and Cha, yes?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

The Sorceror/Wizard comparison is what really made me think "wow, these Favored Souls really get the shaft compared to Clerics!".

In what way exactly (speaking of the Sor/Wiz comparison, that is)?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Shin, do you think your characters have more wealth than "appropriate" for their level, or even significantly more than that?

Could you give a rough factor as to how much wealth the characters in your party possess on average in relation to DMG standard wealth (i.e. 1x, 1.5x or 2x as much)?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gez]

Also, no Knowledge (Religion).

Hey, they don't need it, since they can't turn undead... In WotC's mind, Knowledge (Religion) is Knowledge (The Undead and How to Turn or Rebuke Them).

Monks also didn't have it in 3.0.

Favored Souls will have Knowledge (Religion) in the next revision!