D&D 1E Favorite Obscure Rules from TSR-era D&D

[Lanefan]

And then there were groups that used benchmark leveling. And everyone was the same level, even the cleric and rogue. I never played with benchmark leveling back in the day, but we has campaigns where "everyone starts at level X" which was benchmark leveling, but only before the game actually started.

Even then, all it took was one level-drainer and you weren't all the same level any more.

 

[Lanefan]

Yep, I gotcha. What are your thoughts on the B/X and AD&D five saving throw model? I was reading Dolmenwood which uses the similar idea with just more universal / easier-to-grasp names. It struck me that D&D has had so many saving throws, and it seemed a bit like that XP progression as a sort of vestigial organ that added more bookkeeping for little payoff.

I expanded it from five to eight (I split out paralysis, poison, and death, and added a generic "if nothing else applies" save), and I like it.

The biggest underlying change from the BX-1e model to 3e and later is that in the earlier editions the difficulty of the save is set by what you're saving against, where in the later editions what's causing you to save has little-to-nothing to do with how well you save. I far prefer the earlier model for that reason alone.

 

[James Gasik]

But it WAS funny!

No argument there!

 

[Staffan]

I expanded it from five to eight (I split out paralysis, poison, and death, and added a generic "if nothing else applies" save), and I like it.

That's supposed to be Spells (at least in 2e, might have been different in previous editions). I recall that the descriptions of the various save categories said that they were supposed to be in order of priority (so you'd use Paralysis/Poison/Death against a wand of paralysis, because PPD was higher priority than Rods/Staves/Wands), and they also included some description of what they entailed so you could determine what category a particular effect should be under.

 

[Quickleaf]

I expanded it from five to eight (I split out paralysis, poison, and death, and added a generic "if nothing else applies" save), and I like it.

The biggest underlying change from the BX-1e model to 3e and later is that in the earlier editions the difficulty of the save is set by what you're saving against, where in the later editions what's causing you to save has little-to-nothing to do with how well you save. I far prefer the earlier model for that reason alone.

What was your thinking when you split off those other saving throw categories? Were you trying to accommodate a more straightforward character sheet taking into account racial bonuses likes dwarves/gnomes get to saves vs. poison?

 

[Lanefan]

What was your thinking when you split off those other saving throw categories? Were you trying to accommodate a more straightforward character sheet taking into account racial bonuses likes dwarves/gnomes get to saves vs. poison?

I wanted to split out poison because it made sense to me that Thief-types would be better at resisting it than other classes due to training; and I split out paralysis and death because paralysis should be a bit more difficult to save against overall than death (or, if you like, it should be a bit easier to save vs death than paralysis). This also allowed me to tweak a few other things, not as broad-based.

Edit to add: we don't list saves on the character sheet; the saves matrix is DM-side only.

 

[overgeeked]

I wanted to split out poison because it made sense to me that Thief-types would be better at resisting it than other classes due to training; and I split out paralysis and death because paralysis should be a bit more difficult to save against overall than death (or, if you like, it should be a bit easier to save vs death than paralysis). This also allowed me to tweak a few other things, not as broad-based.

Edit to add: we don't list saves on the character sheet; the saves matrix is DM-side only.

For similar reasons we gave thieves and assassins a bonus to saves against poison and switched most save or die effects to dealing 1/2 max HP instead of outright death.

 

[fuindordm]

Returning to minutiae, AD&D spells are a rich source of strangeness.

The Faerie Fire spell has an area effect expressed in "linear feet". The short example in the text tells you that the druid spends this AOE outlining creatures, so at first level, with 12 linear feet, you can outline one 6' tall human (up, then down) or 2 3' tall kobolds.

In other words, the spell expects you to calculate the perimeter of the cross section from the druid's point of view.

If the druid is flying and has a birds-eye view of the battlefield, can they outline more creatures?

If the enemy is a giant spider (say, with 8 3' long legs), does that consume 48 linear feet of AOE?

So strange, so difficult to put into practice, yet so delightful on some level to imagine the druid tracing the outlines of the targets with a mistletoe wand, squinting at the scene like Bob Ross!

 

[Mannahnin]

Club, dagger, or sword in 1e. Definitely a melee weapon in 2e. That only worked in The Gamers!

Yet another virtue of B/X.

 

[Mannahnin]

The biggest underlying change from the BX-1e model to 3e and later is that in the earlier editions the difficulty of the save is set by what you're saving against, where in the later editions what's causing you to save has little-to-nothing to do with how well you save. I far prefer the earlier model for that reason alone.

Eh. I don't think that's quite it. The TSR era saves were based on what was attacking you, but took no account of how powerful the attack or attacker was. A save vs Dragon's Breath AKA Breath Weapon was the same difficulty no matter whether it was from a baby dragon or an ancient. A save vs Charm Person was the same difficulty whether it was a first level apprentice casting it or an archmage.

3rd edition and later shifted the saves/defenses to be based on how you defend against it, but they also introduced variation in difficulty based on the power of the attacher.

I do think that 3E and 4E had the most intuitive approach. I like how 2E and earlier made level the most important factor and made class and ability scores of secondary importance.

I think the Swords & Wizardry approach is elegant and pretty great overall- one single save number, but different classes get bonuses to saves vs particular attack forms.