Feat Prerequisites and Buff Spells

[rvalle]

Can someone take a feat who's prerequisites he only meets when he is buffed with the understanding he can only use the feat when buffed?

My knee jerk reaction to this is 'no' but he CAN take a feat who's prerequisites he meets when using a + stat magic item (like +2 dex gloves for example).

Thoughts?

rv

 

[jaelis]

Can someone take a feat who's prerequisites he only meets when he is buffed with the understanding he can only use the feat when buffed?

I'd say yes. Otherwise it opens a bit of a can of worms.

 

[billd91]

I'd say no, including no to qualifying using magic items, because it opens up a big can of worms.

 

[darthkilmor]

Can someone take a feat who's prerequisites he only meets when he is buffed with the understanding he can only use the feat when buffed?

My knee jerk reaction to this is 'no' but he CAN take a feat who's prerequisites he meets when using a + stat magic item (like +2 dex gloves for example).

Thoughts?

rv

Leveling is not an instantaneous event that is going to happen in the 10 minutes you have a stat buff running, so I'd have to vote No.

As far as stat-boosting magic items, i;d vote yes.

 

[jaelis]

Leveling is not an instantaneous event that is going to happen in the 10 minutes you have a stat buff running, so I'd have to vote No.

So how long a duration buff is required?

 

[Deset Gled]

Leveling is not an instantaneous event that is going to happen in the 10 minutes you have a stat buff running, so I'd have to vote No.

As far as stat-boosting magic items, i;d vote yes.

IDHTBRIFOM, but I believe that leveling is actually an instantaneous event if you follow the rules for it in the DMG. It happens as soon as you receive the necessary experience, which happens as soon as you complete an encounter. This makes it possible to meet the prerequisite during the moment of leveling up. Even if leveling is not instantaneous, the possibility of a persistant spell or multiple castings make it possible to have a spell buff last the entire leveling period. Furthermore, the rules make no distinction between the +4 you get from a magic item and the +4 you get from a boost spell.

I cannot think of anything in the rules that would stop a player from choosing a feat with a prereq they only match when buffed, provided they go through the trouble of making sure they are buffed when they level. A question much more important than "can they" is "should they". Allowing any prereq to be based off of a temporary boost via a spell, item, or another random condition like having a familiar with 5', is a problem because it is an all-or-nothing setup. The DM has the choice of blatantly ignoring the weakness, or castrating the character. OTOH, there are certain builds and playstyles that almost require it. There's no way to meet some of the prereqs in epic level play without boosts or hundreds of levels. And there's no reason a fighter shouldn't enjoy Expertising it up with a 12 Int and a Headband of Intellect at level 10 if he know's he's going to be upping his Int to 13 with his stat boost at level 12.

Personally, I think consistency is the key. The DM needs to decide if he's going to let player's pick feats with prereqs they don't meet naturally or not, and stick too it.

 

[blargney the second]

I'd say no if there were hard level-based requirements, like skill ranks, BAB, or caster level.

I might say yes if they were easily obtainable abilities like attribute points or movement modes. (eg I'd let a 12 Str cleric with bull's strength take Power Attack, and I'd let a wizard with the fly spell take Improved Flight.)
-blarg

 

[Jhaelen]

So how long a duration buff is required?

In theory: 24 hours. In practice I still wouldn't allow it

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't see it as so bad, as long as they can't use the feat while not buffed. I generally only allow this for buffs of hour/level duration in my games, if it matters. At higher levels, maybe 10 min/level, mostly cause 3.5 nerfed buff durations anyway.

 

[jaelis]

In theory: 24 hours. In practice I still wouldn't allow it

What about items that you take off while you sleep? What makes you feel like they would be OK, but a 12 hour buff would not?