Feat retraining

[Mycon]

Hi,

Can you trade out a class level bonus feat for a general one, or can you only trade it for another you would have had an option for at the time.

ie could a monk trade in the bonus class feat of Improved Grappling or Stunning fist for a general feat such as Improved Initiative?

Cheers

 

[Ceska]

Hi,

Can you trade out a class level bonus feat for a general one, or can you only trade it for another you would have had an option for at the time.

I´d go with the latter. Bonus feats are restrictive by a reason. And feat retraining just gives you the chance to change the decisions you made, based on your options you had at the time of the selection. Therefore you have to stick to the (restricted) selection of the bonus feat.

 

[Infiniti2000]

ie could a monk trade in the bonus class feat of Improved Grappling or Stunning fist for a general feat such as Improved Initiative?

No. You can change the choice you would have made, not create an all new class feature. This is explicitly noted on pg. 192 of the PHII. The idea behind retraining is an attempt at keeping characters organic and maintaining character continuity (it keeps people from wanting to just dump a character and start over).

 

[brehobit]

OK,
Here's one.

Say you have a character that takes weapon Focus at level 1 then weapon specialization at level 6, both as general feats. You then gain the weapon specialization feat at level 6 as a bonus feat and weapon focus as a bonus feat at level 10. Can you retrain those two general feats even though WF is now taken after WS?

Mark

 

[LonePaladin]

Care to explain that one? Gaining Weapon Focus after Weapon Specialization? It's not possible to take the latter without the former.

Anyway, the retraining rules state that you can't change a feat if removing the old one would make you ineligible for any other feats or abilities you already possess. This means that a fighter who has Weapon Focus and Specialization in a single weapon can't retrain either, because WF is a prerequisite for WS, and he doesn't qualify for any other option in WS. If he takes Weapon Focus in a second weapon, then he can retrain his specialization, and change the original focus at a later level.

'Course, if you're really wanting to change those two feats around a lot, just play a warblade.

 

[Elethiomel]

The example here is a character that has two sources for both Weapon Specialisation and Weapon Focus feats, and bonus feats from class features. They want to retrain the feats so that they can get other feats instead. The bonus feats from class features will remain.

The problem is that the bonus feat Weapon Specialisation in the weapon they already had WS in was gained before the bonus feat Weapon Focus in the weapon they already had WS in. Consider this example (I know some feat slots are empty. That's because what's in them is irrelevant. The prestige classes I invented are non-existent. They are an example only for illustration purposes):
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus: Battle Axe
Fighter 2
Fighter 3
Fighter 4: Weapon Specialisation: Battle Axe
Barbarian 1
Battle Axe Master of Anocchia 1
Battle Axe Master of Anocchia 2: Bonus Feat: Weapon Specialisation: Battle Axe
Deadly Axe 1: Bonus Feat: Axe Focus (as the Dwarven Fighter level substitution)

Can this character retrain their level 1 and 4 feats?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Can this character retrain their level 1 and 4 feats?

Yes, I don't see why not, as long as they do so for something they could've gained at the time. For example, they couldn't be retrained later as greater weapon focus and greater weapon specialization.