Feats

[delericho]

The problem with feats in 3e and 4e is that they're trying to do too many things. Basically, any time a designer thought of something cool and couldn't figure out where else to put it, it became a feat.

And so, we have utility feats that allow you to specialise your character by giving a small numerical bonus to a particular roll (Weapon Focus), there are feats that either give a new power or modify an existing power (3e's Cleave, 4e's feats for modifying the Dragonborn's breath weapon), and some miscellaneous feats that do other things entirely (3e's Leadership, perhaps?)

I don't think any of these are necessarily bad, but I think the system needs cleaned up.

I would recommend splitting the existing feats into two categories (say 'feats' and 'talents').

One category ('feats') should include the small, numeric, always-on category. That is, Weapon Focus and the like. I would recommend giving one of these feats at every even-numbered level.

The other category ('talents') should include the power-lite effects and also the ones that allow a character to modify one of his existing powers. That is, Cleave or Quicken Spell, or the like. I would recommend giving one of these talents at every odd-numbered level except first. (That way, creating a new character becomes a matter of ability scores, race, class, maybe powers, equipment, play - fewer steps is a very good thing for new players.)

The 'miscellaneous effects' feats should be re-examined. Either these should become something else (a Paragon path, new powers in their own right, or whatever), or they should be dropped. In many cases, the latter is probably the route to take.

 

[Connorsrpg]

If feats make it into 5E i would like to see them be powers/abilities/mods for any class, race etc.

I would rather see all class-only or race-only feats separated into the class abilities in the form of kits/themes/Talent Trees.

If a feat is only for one class/race, then put it there. Make the feat list for everyone.

 

[Minigiant]

Feats affected too much. D&D has races, classes, skills, magic, background rules, and story. Feats on 3e and 4e affected all of this.

If feats only did one thing, I'll be okay with it.

But 3rd/4th style feats? Burned, ran over, burned again, beaten with a shovel, and burned a third time for good measure.

 

[SensoryThought]

I see two main problems with feats in 4e:
(1) at least 80% are so situational or 'weak' that no one ever takes them. For power balancing, weapon expertise, master at arms and improved defenses seem to be taken fairly ubiquitously.
(2) Many feats require prerequisites such that some characters are build around the feats rather than a rp concept.

I'd like to see feats go the way of inherent magic item bonuses - have the math of the basic pluses of combat feats factored in and have the feats give skills, skill bonuses, languages, or perhaps influence utility/class/racial powers and abilities.

 

[paladinm]

I think I'd prefer to see feats used as enhancements for non-spellcasting classes. I think there are some retroclones that have sort of gone this route, allowing "cleave", etc. for fighters only. Spellcasters customize themselves by the spells they choose; I think feats would make fighters, rogues, etc. more appealing if WotC does Not go with a full-blown "powers" model. This could also bring in some of the grognards (like me) who think that 3.x became way too convoluted, largely because of feats.

I'm still toying with the idea of having only 2 basic classes: a "fighter" and a spellcaster. A fighter can be customized out the wazoo with feats, skills, weapons choices, etc. Tracking, raging, etc. can all become "feats". So can all the various thief tricks. What really is the difference between a brawny thief and an agile fighter?

Likewise, a spellcaster can be a cleric, druid, mage, whatever based on the spells s/he selects. A spellcaster who selects elemental spells and a pplymorph becomes a druid.

I think it could work

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I am not totally negative about feats...

I like how you can gain some benefits regardless which class you follow.
I do believe however, that feats need to be categorized and optional.

Wepon proficiencies. Weapon styles. Nonweapon proficiencies (a.k.a skills)

look at 2nd edition how it works:

you start with different numbers of proficiencies at your career.
You have a class list of skills and weapon proficiencies... at first level (note: entry level for beginners and those who like 1st level D&D) you chose a weapon from your class list. A way to fight with it (maybe costing a weapon proficiency or so) and skills from your list.
As you progress in level, you have points, where you get another feat from your class list of feats and when you are out of your training levels, you have a working character who made all meaningful choices during play, that you now do during character creation. Maybe even allow to progrees your stats only during these beginner levels.

After those level, level 2 or 3 of 4e powerwise... you may have more freedom of choice... maybe a combat/noncombat feat every other level... but only one at a time and only after having actually played that game (1st level new players should not be forced to do nonobvious choices... chosing a weapon and some skills should be sufficient)

 

[Wormwood]

I love me some 4e, but I am tired of feats. They were sold to me as a way to allow for deep character customization, but essentially they end up being dozens of conditional bonuses to shop for and track.

I'm over it.

Let's try them optional or rare (maybe three per character career).

 

[tuxgeo]

The elimination of Feats would not be as "unifying" a design principle as we have been told the next iteration of D&D is intended to be.

The complexity dial should work for that: at low complexity, there would be no need to choose any Feats, because certain feats would be chosen by default. At higher complexity, the characters could make their own selections from broader and broader sets of feats.

That seems workable to me.

 

[nightwalker450]

I'm really torn on this...

I love feats, I love what they enable my character to do. I dislike number feats, except perhaps skill bonus ones, but damage/attack bonus ones I hate, because they are unimaginative.

I really hate the feat list though, its such a pain when you're trying to fill a slot and you're not sure on what to put in it. With the character builder this was somewhat manageable.

At first the list was small, and so it didn't take long to find the one that best suited you at the time. New ones are added, and I read them, and it's great because I've always wanted my character to be able to do that! Then I create a new higher level character and its just overwhelming the number of feats to sort through.

They are a great customization tool, but maybe they should become less of THE customization tool, and more of a fine tuning. Let race/class/theme handle the true customization, and feats just fine tune that. SO how do we do that? (I'm typing at the speed of thought.. so bear with me)

Multiple "Feat" pools, Level 1,5,10 etc... You choose a racial feat, something your race excels at. Level 1,4,8 etc... You choose a class feat, develop your class into it it's own. Levels 1,3,6 etc choose a feat based on your theme (This is where the generic pool of today would be). But now those feats are tossed into separate multiple groups:

Pyromancer, or Dual Wielding - Class Feats
Dwarven Hit Points or Elven Forest Walk - Racial Feats
Linguist, or Nature Enthusiast - Theme feats

If you want to simplify:
Class Feats: Illusinist Path, Knight Path, Duelist Path
Racials: Standard Paths
Themes: Keep these minor, and you can choose to leave them out completely or have everyone choose them because they'll be fun and not Number crunching requirements.

Class/Racial Feats: These are in 4e and are a pain. Make them racial, but keep the wording tight enough to prevent abuse. (Keywords: Divine, Arcane, Weapon, Implement, Melee, Ranged)

 

[Howndawg]

I like how Fantasy Craft handles feats. Three feat chains. Want a sword and board fighter? Take the sword and shield chains. I think it's much simpler than having 20 different shield feats and having to pick and choose between them.