Feeblemind question

[Al'Kelhar]

Feeblemind
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
If the target creature fails a Will saving throw, its Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them. The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind. A creature that can cast arcane spells, such as a sorcerer or a wizard, takes a –4 penalty on its saving throw.
Material Component: A handful of clay, crystal, glass, or mineral spheres.

Is a creature which can cast arcane spells as spell-like abilities "a creature that can cast arcane spells" for the purposes of saving throws against feeblemind? For example, most intelligent outsiders have a number of spell-like abilities, such as greater teleport. Do they suffer the -4 penalty to their saves? What about warlocks?

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Scharlata]

Is a creature which can cast arcane spells as spell-like abilities "a creature that can cast arcane spells" for the purposes of saving throws against feeblemind? [...] What about warlocks?

Hi!

I don't think so. Spell-like abilities are not spells (neither divine nor arcane). They may be treated like spells in most cases but there are some differences, as mentioned here: Rules of the Game: Spell-like Abilities.

Warlocks use invocations. [CA, p. 7, Invocations: "A warlock does not prepare or cast spells as other wielders of arcane magic do."]

Kind regards

 

[Li Shenron]

I really think not. Spell-like abilities aren't arcane nor divine either, despite usually replicating the same effects of spells, they represent something innate of the creature most of the time.

 

[Thanee]

Spell-like abilities do count as arcane, IIRC, but they are not spells.

Bye
Thanee

 

[ARandomGod]

I've always ruled that they do get the -4. ALthough upon closer look this might not be the case...

 

[UltimaGabe]

Although they only use Spell-Like Abilities, I believe I recall Complete Arcane saying that Warlocks DO count as Arcane Spellcasters for various purposes (one of the definite purposes, of course, being qualifying for a prestige class with "Arcane Caster Level X" as a prerequisite). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they state that Warlocks count as Arcane Spellcasters, and I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to give them the penalty to Feeblemind as well.

 

[Scharlata]

Although they only use Spell-Like Abilities, I believe I recall Complete Arcane saying that Warlocks DO count as Arcane Spellcasters for various purposes (one of the definite purposes, of course, being qualifying for a prestige class with "Arcane Caster Level X" as a prerequisite). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they state that Warlocks count as Arcane Spellcasters, and I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to give them the penalty to Feeblemind as well.

Hi!

This may be true but that does NOT imply that their use of invocations are identical to using arcane spells with respect to the question asked.

Kind regards

 

[Thanee]

Although they only use Spell-Like Abilities, I believe I recall Complete Arcane saying that Warlocks DO count as Arcane Spellcasters for various purposes (one of the definite purposes, of course, being qualifying for a prestige class with "Arcane Caster Level X" as a prerequisite). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they state that Warlocks count as Arcane Spellcasters, and I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to give them the penalty to Feeblemind as well.

They surely do not count as arcane spellcasters... they just have an arcane caster level, like pretty much everyone with spell-like abilities.

The PrC in Complete Arcane specifically list either arcane spellcasting ability OR arcane caster level as a requirement, because of Warlocks.

Bye
Thanee