Fight for the Lost - The Mass Effect 2 Thread

ME2 plays well, though it suffers from fridge logic.

1) Why would anybody give up effectively unlimited ammo for a slightly greater rate of fire? Why not leave a permanent heat sink in the gun to use for a slower rate after you've used all the disposable ones? (An even more nitpicky question is how they keep all of the heat sinks from heating up at the same time, given that heat travels by both conduction and convection.)

2) How is it that all of these inhabited planets have relatively large quantities of valuable metals just lying around untouched? How many people would ignore a big pile of platinum sitting around? It can't be that hard to get, since a scouting probe is capable of collecting it.

3) Why is it that both the Council in the first game and Cerberus in the second are willing to let their top agents self-fund operations via petty theft and cybercrime? You would think your character would at least draw a salary from the Alliance...or do all those human soldiers work for free?

4) Who would build a scouting vehicle (from the first game) that handles like a five-year-old on a trampoline?

5) The Alliance lost six frigates defending the Citadel at the end of the first game. Throughout both games, you get the impression that all of the major powers have relatively sizeable navies. How is that the Alliance needs so long to rebuild and recover from the loss of just six ships?

6) How is it that an AI capable of hacking into a completely alien ship's network is incapable of triangulating a radio signal without physically sending a probe to a planet's surface? For that matter, I wouldn't think letting EDI handle the resource scanning would be that much of a risk, rather than doing it manually.

7) Cerberus is thought of as a terrorist organization, especially by the Council. How is it that the crew can walk around the Citadel fully armed and armored while blatantly wearing the Cerberus symbol? They're obviously recognized -- the Quarians with Tali in the first mission had no trouble identifying them, presumably by their gear.

8) How is it that weapons capable of piercing kinetic barriers and personal armor pose no risk whatsoever to the hull of any ship or space station? Nobody ever expresses any concern.

9) Who in their right mind would move to a colony world in a hostile section of the galaxy without any defenses? Ignoring the Geth and the Collectors, you have pirates, raiders and slavers, including Batarians and other races. Sure, a small number might take the risk, but planets like Eden Prime had fairly sizeable populations.

10) For somebody holding the role of the most important ambassador from Earth, has anybody ever seen Udina be diplomatic with anybody? He isn't even subtle when he's talking to the Council, never mind his own staff.

Just sayin'...
 

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ME2 plays well, though it suffers from fridge logic.

I'm not sure what fridge logic is, exactly. Some of your questions have answers in-game in the codex.

1) Why would anybody give up effectively unlimited ammo for a slightly greater rate of fire?

From the codex:
Geth adaptation
It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins. Combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat or pause as their weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.


Now, you can say that's an excuse for a new game mechanic and I'd agree...but they do have a justification.

How is it that all of these inhabited planets have relatively large quantities of valuable metals just lying around untouched? How many people would ignore a big pile of platinum sitting around? It can't be that hard to get, since a scouting probe is capable of collecting it.

Actually, it can...especially if you read the information on the individual planets before prospecting them. Many of the planets are very hard to investigate or actively mine. The Normandy-2 has vastly superior scanners to the original and basically is finding deposits more primitive miners have not...or have been unable to do because of bad conditions, pirates or political reasons. In many cases, the alliance has prevented mining on some planets.

3) Why is it that both the Council in the first game and Cerberus in the second are willing to let their top agents self-fund operations via petty theft and cybercrime? You would think your character would at least draw a salary from the Alliance...or do all those human soldiers work for free?

Well, my Sheppard was a paragon, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. :) On the other hand, you've hit on the classic trope of most computer and console RPGs...where the heroes have to raise their own money for weapons to save the kingdom/galaxy. At least here, it's due in part to Sheppard being politically restricted or in places where his SPECTRE status or cooperation with Cerberus either are a problem or not a help, forcing him to have to do things 'off the books'. And in both cases, the Alliance and Cerberus have given him carte blanche to solve the problem his way.

4) Who would build a scouting vehicle (from the first game) that handles like a five-year-old on a trampoline?

The Alliance, apparently. =D

5) The Alliance lost six frigates defending the Citadel at the end of the first game. Throughout both games, you get the impression that all of the major powers have relatively sizeable navies. How is that the Alliance needs so long to rebuild and recover from the loss of just six ships?

That depends on what you mean by 'sizable navies'. All of the races are limited in how many ships of a certain size class they are allowed to have, by Alliance charter. The asari Dreadnought Deadly Ascension in ME1 is the biggest ship in existence (which may or may not survive the battle, based on what you do).

The various races all take major ship losses during the Siege of the Citadel, but they haven't lost all their ships....just their ships dedicated to guarding the Citadel. Before Sovereign's attack, they specifically mention that the Dreadnoughts are all guarding various ME Relays to guard against Sovereign. Given that without mankind's help, the Deadly Ascension is destroyed, it's safe to say that no ship is singly capable of withstanding it. We aren't told how many remain at the end of ME1...but it's implied a lot more are destroyed than we get to see.

If the Ascension is destroyed in ME1, you hear a news item in ME2 that says the Asari have ceded their peace-keeping fleet responsibilities to the Turians, who are already the Council enforcers. If you let the council die in ME1 and they get replaced with an all-Human council, then you hear a news item that the Turians no longer consider the Treaty and are massively building up new ships (implying they fear mankind's ruthless ascension). A sizable chunk of every race's fleet is spent guarding their interests from pirates, expansionist incursions (see the Skylian Verge) and just keeping the peace. Said fleets are also expensive, which is why mainkind only has 6 of their alloted 8 dreadnoughts and start ME1 with one under construction.

So it's not that the respective races don't have enough ships...they don't have enough ships to patrol their own territories AND guard the Citadel, generally. At the end of ME1, the Alliance brings in the entire Fifth Fleet...it's mentioned that mankind has 6 fleets, I think. So you're seeing a large amount of mankind's fleet in action in ME1.

In ME, the ship sizes go fighter->frigate->cruiser->carrier->dreadnought. IIRC, only mankind actually uses fighters and carriers. The Normandy is a frigate, but apparently much more powerful than any ship in it's class by a wide margin.

DreadPirateMurphy;51280826) How is it that an AI capable of hacking into a completely alien ship's network is incapable of triangulating a radio signal without physically sending a probe to a planet's surface? For that matter said:
[Shrug] I dunno. It's a mini-game. I'm sure there's some trumped-up explanation, but this doesn't really hurt my head, honestly.

Cerberus is thought of as a terrorist organization, especially by the Council. How is it that the crew can walk around the Citadel fully armed and armored while blatantly wearing the Cerberus symbol? They're obviously recognized -- the Quarians with Tali in the first mission had no trouble identifying them, presumably by their gear.

They're considered terrorists by SOME and more in Alliance space than the Citadel. The Citadel has numerous organizations running around on it that might be considered terrorists: the Blue Suns, just about any Batarian or Vorcha, Eclipse, the Salarian Special Tasks Group, etc. If they keep the peace at the Citadel, then they get to be there. Especially when walking around with Sheppard, who is STILL a SPECTRE. And they're easily identified by their uniform patch.

C-Sec is understaffed and we see plenty of well-armed people walking about the station. Hell, there's a weapons shop right past the entrance. :) Clearly, the Citadel has a system of legally carrying weapons.

8) How is it that weapons capable of piercing kinetic barriers and personal armor pose no risk whatsoever to the hull of any ship or space station? Nobody ever expresses any concern.

I don't have the codex in front of me, but I'd assume because of the ship's own internal Mass Effect fields. Everything has them: your guns, your armor...there's no reason to think that station walls and ship hulls don't have them and that they'd specifically suppress gun effects.

9) Who in their right mind would move to a colony world in a hostile section of the galaxy without any defenses? Ignoring the Geth and the Collectors, you have pirates, raiders and slavers, including Batarians and other races. Sure, a small number might take the risk, but planets like Eden Prime had fairly sizeable populations.

And it had the Alliance Fleet patrolling on a regular basis and had a full detachment of marines guarding it. More importantly, Eden Prime is a rare 'garden world' that the Council let mankind have. It's worth it's weight in gold in the ME universe, being perfect for mankind's biological needs. Remember: Eden Prime was colonized before the Geth started attacking and the collectors were just a memory. The Normandy was already on her way to Eden Prime when they got the distress beacon. If it had been the Batarians like at the Skylian Verge, they would have been safe.

10) For somebody holding the role of the most important ambassador from Earth, has anybody ever seen Udina be diplomatic with anybody? He isn't even subtle when he's talking to the Council, never mind his own staff.

Just sayin'...

Oh, I'm with you there. He sucks as an Ambassador, from what we see. On the other hand, Anderson says he knows what he's doing...and he appears able to navigate the Citadel bureaucracy. But if you're a renegade in ME1, you actually help him make an All-Human council, even if you disagree. So he's really a jerk, too. Wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to be a Cerberus sleeper.
 

I'm not sure what fridge logic is, exactly. Some of your questions have answers in-game in the codex.

Fridge logic describes those thoughts that you get after the TV show or movie is all over, and you're staring into your fridge looking for a snack, and you suddenly wonder about questions that seem obvious in retrospect.

Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins...Now, you can say that's an excuse for a new game mechanic and I'd agree...but they do have a justification.

BioWare is generally very good at coming up with in-game justifications for changes -- just like they're very good at coming up with involved plots with dozens of characters. This one just isn't very plausible if you look at the actual in-game performance of assault rifles, for example, in the first game, and think about the massive logistics burden you're adding by having to have all of these disposable thermal clips for your troops. Add in the idea that every weapon everywhere has been modified in less than 3 years, that the collectors use the same standard sinks, and that you can find heat sinks in the Jacob loyalty mission on a freighter that disappeared ten years ago...

The Normandy-2 has vastly superior scanners to the original and basically is finding deposits more primitive miners have not...or have been unable to do because of bad conditions, pirates or political reasons. In many cases, the alliance has prevented mining on some planets.

Hmmm...still seems odd that after hundreds of 50K year extinction cycles, and recent active exploitation by the Council Races and others, there are so many untapped minerals lying around the galaxy. The Progenitors were supposed to be more advanced than even the Asari -- yet they gave up on mining eezo on the Omega Asteroid because it was too hard? Meh.

They're considered terrorists by SOME and more in Alliance space than the Citadel.

Well, the Quarians definitely consider them criminals after the fleet invasion, and the Council makes it clear that they are not happy by this turn of events. At a minimum, you would think the Asari Justicar would see a Cerberus affiliation as a sign of criminality, given their zero-tolerance attitude. Naturally, the game would be unplayable if they tried to arrest you everywhere you went. :)

C-Sec is understaffed and we see plenty of well-armed people walking about the station. Hell, there's a weapons shop right past the entrance. :) Clearly, the Citadel has a system of legally carrying weapons.

The ineffectiveness of C-Sec despite the attack by Sovereign is lampshaded so much that is has to be a jab at current events.

I don't have the codex in front of me, but I'd assume because of the ship's own internal Mass Effect fields.

Apparently, this is true even when the power is off? Fine, eezo is the phlebotinum that makes the universe go...I'll live with it.
 

Hmmm...still seems odd that after hundreds of 50K year extinction cycles, and recent active exploitation by the Council Races and others, there are so many untapped minerals lying around the galaxy. The Progenitors were supposed to be more advanced than even the Asari -- yet they gave up on mining eezo on the Omega Asteroid because it was too hard? Meh.
Maybe there was a lot more eezo around in the "old" days and they didn't have to bother with pathetic sources like the Omega Asteroid.

[/fanwank]
 

Fridge logic describes those thoughts that you get after the TV show or movie is all over, and you're staring into your fridge looking for a snack, and you suddenly wonder about questions that seem obvious in retrospect.

Ah, gotcha.



Add in the idea that every weapon everywhere has been modified in less than 3 years, that the collectors use the same standard sinks, and that you can find heat sinks in the Jacob loyalty mission on a freighter that disappeared ten years ago...

Good points, all. I guess I just didn't care to think about it all that deeply. I didn't particularly see the need for the changes, per se...but they offered me enough of a justification to ignore it.



Hmmm...still seems odd that after hundreds of 50K year extinction cycles, and recent active exploitation by the Council Races and others, there are so many untapped minerals lying around the galaxy. The Progenitors were supposed to be more advanced than even the Asari -- yet they gave up on mining eezo on the Omega Asteroid because it was too hard? Meh.

I'd chalk some of that up to unreliable information. The Proteans are supposed to also
BE DEAD.
It may have been too hard compared with the tons of much more easily availble sources elsewhere. Heck, for all we know, the Reapers may have been leaving deposits around to make sure we find them, like a farmer putting down fertilizer. :)



, the Quarians definitely consider them criminals after the fleet invasion, and the Council makes it clear that they are not happy by this turn of events. At a minimum, you would think the Asari Justicar would see a Cerberus affiliation as a sign of criminality, given their zero-tolerance attitude. Naturally, the game would be unplayable if they tried to arrest you everywhere you went. :)

Well, they do have explanations for a lot of that in game, including how the Justicar rationalizes it versus her code. Sure, there's more than a little hand-waving, like when I brought Legion onboard the Citadel (although I should point out that Anderson actually had an explanation for why people didn't freak at the sight of him when I asked). For a lot of stuff like this, they at least made the effort, even if it isn't necessarily 100% convincing.

Apparently, this is true even when the power is off? Fine, eezo is the phlebotinum that makes the universe go...I'll live with it.

Well, they do go into extensive detail about the armor ship and stations have and the self-repairing nature of the nano-bots within them...which apparently require little to no power. More likely, they're just not worried about the damage inflicted by small-arms fire. Or, you know....phlebotinum. ;)
 

Heck, for all we know, the Reapers may have been leaving deposits around to make sure we find them, like a farmer putting down fertilizer.

Man, if you're going to be ruining the third game for everybody, you should use spoiler tags:

*SPOILER* The eezo is really just Reaper fertilizer, which is why all of the galactic technology is based on it, and why they CAN'T be defeated. *END SPOILER*

It also explains why you have to put up with so much **** from the biotics on your team in the second game...
 




Yeah, that's the plan. The problem is that I got that, plus Dragon Age, plus some expansions to NWN as digital downloads, and want to make sure I can back them up before deleting, otherwise I've got to spend hours re-downloading them. So, really it's just a matter of buying an decent sized external drive.
 

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