D&D 5E Fight to the death or negotiate?

[FormerlyHemlock]

Let's say four Fire Giants are sitting around their den, in full armor but relaxing on their giant couches and munching on giant food. They are surprised by the sudden appearance of four 11th level PCs (not that the giants can tell what level they are) under Pass Without Trace. In the surprise round:

The Bardlock summons 16 snarling wolves (who are themselves surprised this round because they're freshly summoned).
The Necromancer orders his six skeletons to step out from behind cover and ready their bows to shoot any giant who draws a weapon, while he himself casts a Wall of Force that manages to wall off two giants from the rest of the room (the wall has a 3' gap at the bottom that isn't big enough for a giant to fit through but allows them to still hear what's going on).
The Paladin/Sorcerer activates his Sacred Weapon, which begins to glow, and advances towards the giants shouting "Halt!"
The Shadow Monk draws her bow and gestures, and a booming, lion-roar-sized voice (from Minor Illusion cantrip) says, "Throw your mistempered weapons to the ground!"

Now the surprise round is done, and (because Speed Factor/AD&D initiative is in play) the Fire Giants have to declare their actions. If you're running the Fire Giants, do they fight or cautiously drop their weapon belts and raise their hands to the air?

D&D guidelines suggest that this is a 3x Deadly fight for the PCs (partly mitigated by the Shadow Monk's scouting w/ Pass Without Trace, although that part of the encounter has already happened). But I can't see any way the Fire Giants wouldn't throw up their hands and surrender at this point. Do you?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

There are a couple of relevant questions.

1) How big is a fire giant, relative to one of the PCs?

2) Do they come from a warrior culture?

3) Is the wall of force visible?

If the answers are, "Significantly," "Yes," and "No," then they would most certainly press the attack. They have nothing to fear from such puny creatures.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

There are a couple of relevant questions.

1) How big is a fire giant, relative to one of the PCs?

2) Do they come from a warrior culture?

3) Is the wall of force visible?

If the answers are, "Significantly," "Yes," and "No," then they would most certainly press the attack. They have nothing to fear from such puny creatures.

Assume that the Wall of Force is "invisible" in a sense similar to glass, but that the giants are aware of the wall's existence. (In point of fact, both of them were pushed behind the wall when it appeared in their space initially, per the spell description.)

A Fire Giant is close to 18' tall, about three times bigger than the PCs. Visually, this is a lot like being attacked by a horde of 2' tall garden gnomes and small growling beagles.

They come from a warrior-ish culture... let's call it a "bully" culture. They're not so much used to fighting as taking what they want.

If you think they would fight, what does it take for them to reconsider? Losing half their HP three seconds? Do they all fight to the death, even the ones behind the wall? Something in between? If the PCs don't want to kill the giants (because the PCs are good guys at heart), is beating them all unconscious their only option if you're in charge of the giants?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Visually, this is a lot like being attacked by a horde of 2' tall garden gnomes and small growling beagles.

I think this answers your question.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If you can KO one giant within two rounds, without any of the PCs being dropped in turn, then I'd definitely give them a morale check or something.

 

[Sunseeker]

If you think they would fight, what does it take for them to reconsider? Losing half their HP three seconds? Do they all fight to the death, even the ones behind the wall? Something in between? If the PCs don't want to kill the giants (because the PCs are good guys at heart), is beating them all unconscious their only option if you're in charge of the giants?

I don't think the Fire Giants would really be aware of what "half their HP" is.

The two giants behind the wall are completely sealed off? Aside from the 3 ft space below the wall of course, the wall extends to the ceiling and wall-to-wall? I'd treat the wall as giving 3/4 cover to those inside and outside, and provided the Fire Giants had access (or the players didn't ask questions), I'd let the Giants make their ranged "rock" attack like a bowling ball.

Given that they are bully-warriors, I suspect they would give up when they feel the fight is "lost". Maybe that's when the first giant goes down, maybe that's when one of them gets hit with a particularly brutal effect. I'd imagine if the Fire Giants don't act like morons, they're going to target the most magey-looking fellow to bust their friends out, who needs to make concentration checks if he gets hit to maintain the wall. If they succeed at that before they suffer any serious damage, I'd argue that they would keep fighting for quite a while, mostly ignoring the skeletons and wolves.

I think Hemlock is right with his visualization. A bunch of angry lawn gnomes just showed up and decided to see how tough you are, I think the Fire Giants would be willing to show them exactly how tough they are, and how smart they are.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

If you can KO one giant within two rounds, without any of the PCs being dropped in turn, then I'd definitely give them a morale check or something.

So violence is the only option? Hmmm, okay.

There's no risk of the PCs being dropped in turn. I rolled a simulated first round, and the fire giants took 8 opportunity attacks from wolves who beat their initiative, missed the Paladin four times (the only PC within range, who's deliberately offering himself as a target--would have hit him once if he hadn't Shielded), and took 91 and 34 points of damage respectively. That's like running into garden gnomes who suddenly whip out chainsaws and ram them into your guts.

Do you think the giants would be okay surrendering at that point? FWIW, I rolled a 21 and a 6 respectively on their Morale Wisdom saves, but since the 21 goes to the guy who just took 91 of 162 HP for zero return I might suggest that making a Wisdom save might suggest "you do not irrationally continue your kamikaze assault; sanity prevails and you surrender."

Oh, and by the way, the guy who took 34 points of damage is now prone. (Knocked down by wolves, rolled a 10 on his DC 11 Strength save.)

 

[iserith]

If you're not sure, then it's time for an ability check. I would have the monk make a Charisma (Intimidation) check. The DC would be high because the fire giants are "ruthless militaristic brutes" with "renowned fighting prowess" that are "taught to embrace a legacy of war" from birth. On a success, the fire giants would stand down. On a failure, they would either laugh and all attack the PCs relentlessly or half would fight and half would flee to summon reinforcements which arrive in X rounds.

 

[the Jester]

But I can't see any way the Fire Giants wouldn't throw up their hands and surrender at this point. Do you?

Why, because they are outnumbered by a bunch of small, puny, probably-one-hit-killable things?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Oh, and by the way, the guy who took 34 points of damage is now prone. (Knocked down by wolves, rolled a 10 on his DC 11 Strength save.)

Eighteen feet tall, you say? I'm not sure that the wolf could reasonably knock one down, like ever. It seems like a matter of weight ratios...

In any case, do what you think is best. If it makes sense for the giants to yield, then have them yield. It sounds like you already know what makes sense in this situation.