NotActuallyTim
First Post
Sweet. Glad you found your Giant groove.
D&D 5E (2014) Fight to the death or negotiate?
- Thread starter FormerlyHemlock
- Start date
MechaPilot
Explorer
If I wasn't particularly sure, I'd definitely start with ability/skill checks. What the PCs are doing sounds like textbook intimidation, so I'd definitely say a group contest would be warranted: the PCs' Charisma checks against the giants' Wisdom checks. Whichever side gets more successes wins; a tie results in an uncertain stalemate as both sides are unsure of the other's intentions and abilities.
I'd also give advantage on the roll for certain conditions. If fire giants are vulnerable to frost damage and the glowing weapon the PC holds is radiating cold, that's certainly cause to give that PC advantage.
I'd also give advantage on the roll for certain conditions. If fire giants are vulnerable to frost damage and the glowing weapon the PC holds is radiating cold, that's certainly cause to give that PC advantage.
Sword of Spirit
Legend
I'd have the giants commence battle against those puny creatures.
I tend to assume that most opponents don't get their bearings in the first round of combat. That, plus everything more or less happening simultaneously, means that if they don't immediately surrender or run, they tend to fight to the end of the first round--even if that kills everyone.
With a smaller group of opponents like those four giants, I'd say that any survivors at the end of round 1 would be able to realize they need to surrender or run. I might even let some of them realize it in the middle of the round, though depending on temperament, they might need a few seconds (ie, the rest of the round) just to cool off long enough to realize that surrender or flight is a better option that death.
When you are dealing with, say, a dozen bandits or goblins or such...unless half of their numbers die in round 1, they won't even know who's winning until the end of round 2, what with so much happening all at once, lack of visibility, etc.
So summary: Opponents make initial assessment and fight or not (for these giants = fight), small groups get a chance to reconsider by the end of round 1 (during the round if I'm feeling generous towards them), while large groups rarely get a chance to stop and assess the situation until the end of round 2.
I tend to assume that most opponents don't get their bearings in the first round of combat. That, plus everything more or less happening simultaneously, means that if they don't immediately surrender or run, they tend to fight to the end of the first round--even if that kills everyone.
With a smaller group of opponents like those four giants, I'd say that any survivors at the end of round 1 would be able to realize they need to surrender or run. I might even let some of them realize it in the middle of the round, though depending on temperament, they might need a few seconds (ie, the rest of the round) just to cool off long enough to realize that surrender or flight is a better option that death.
When you are dealing with, say, a dozen bandits or goblins or such...unless half of their numbers die in round 1, they won't even know who's winning until the end of round 2, what with so much happening all at once, lack of visibility, etc.
So summary: Opponents make initial assessment and fight or not (for these giants = fight), small groups get a chance to reconsider by the end of round 1 (during the round if I'm feeling generous towards them), while large groups rarely get a chance to stop and assess the situation until the end of round 2.
Often when I have trouble figuring out what NPCs should do, I let the dice decide for me. It's often easier to weight relative factors than to conclusively pick one. E.g., what factors motivate the giants to fight? what motivates them to surrender?
For example, if the factors are about evenly matched in the giant's minds, then Charisma (Intimidation) DC 10 + the giant's Wisdom. If the factors in favor of fighting are stronger -- and I'd say they are, in this case -- increase the DC by 5 or 10. If the factors in favor of surrender are stronger, lower the DC by 5 or 10. This might make the check so easy that no roll is needed, which is fine.
It's similar to the conversation we are having here, where we list out all the "what ifs." Well what if the giants' great size makes them disdain smaller opponents? what if their culture states that it is shameful to run from a fight? what if there have been rumors going around about a party of humanoids killing giants? what if that paladin's sword looks genuinely nasty? what if giants are afraid of the wall of force powerful enough to knock them aside? what if the giants are sadists who love hurting people? what if the giants' default stance in any situation is "fight?"
...Then, instead of trying to sort it all out (people are complex!), you just judge the relative impact of the most important factors and turn that into a number for the dice.
For example, if the factors are about evenly matched in the giant's minds, then Charisma (Intimidation) DC 10 + the giant's Wisdom. If the factors in favor of fighting are stronger -- and I'd say they are, in this case -- increase the DC by 5 or 10. If the factors in favor of surrender are stronger, lower the DC by 5 or 10. This might make the check so easy that no roll is needed, which is fine.
It's similar to the conversation we are having here, where we list out all the "what ifs." Well what if the giants' great size makes them disdain smaller opponents? what if their culture states that it is shameful to run from a fight? what if there have been rumors going around about a party of humanoids killing giants? what if that paladin's sword looks genuinely nasty? what if giants are afraid of the wall of force powerful enough to knock them aside? what if the giants are sadists who love hurting people? what if the giants' default stance in any situation is "fight?"
...Then, instead of trying to sort it all out (people are complex!), you just judge the relative impact of the most important factors and turn that into a number for the dice.
Illithidbix
Explorer
How common is survival after surrender in your world?
One of my conceptual flaws with lots of D&D worlds is how little thought is given to the idea of surrender, ransom, thralls, slavery and other profitable acts are compared to my understanding of actual pre-firearms societies.
Even the "Good" societies are outright genocidal in behavior... actually they seem kinda *more* prone to it rather than the "evil" slave taking cultures.
So do giants have reasons to believe, even in a snap judgment, that the vicious garden gnomes *would* spare them?
One of my conceptual flaws with lots of D&D worlds is how little thought is given to the idea of surrender, ransom, thralls, slavery and other profitable acts are compared to my understanding of actual pre-firearms societies.
Even the "Good" societies are outright genocidal in behavior... actually they seem kinda *more* prone to it rather than the "evil" slave taking cultures.
So do giants have reasons to believe, even in a snap judgment, that the vicious garden gnomes *would* spare them?
I think IMC the fire giants would try to negotiate, at least to stall for time and size up the enemy. The humans might be tiny but they seem awfully confident... But they would not likely just throw down their swords and surrender. They might attack after negotiations, but might be persuaded to armed neutrality*, or to assist the PCs if goals seem compatible. If a fight started & the PCs killed at least one giant in round 1 then demanded surrender, I'd give the giants a morale check (2d6, roll 8+ to surrender, +1 on dice per additional dead giant).
*With high PC Intimidate checks I can see the giants saying things like "You and we have no
problem here... You don't bother us, we no bother you, right?"
I rem being 1st level (5e) and facing down an overwhelming Bandit force in a Japan-set game -
we knew we couldn't win, but the Bandits were dissuaded from attacking and maybe losing men.
*With high PC Intimidate checks I can see the giants saying things like "You and we have no
problem here... You don't bother us, we no bother you, right?"
I rem being 1st level (5e) and facing down an overwhelming Bandit force in a Japan-set game -
we knew we couldn't win, but the Bandits were dissuaded from attacking and maybe losing men.
Last edited:
Giant culture - I play fire giants more like Mexican Bandidos in old Westerns - definitely not 'no fear of death' berserker types (hill giants are sometimes too stupid to show much fear of death, and some frost giants have a Viking culture - like Vikings they're definitely not brainless, though). So they'll talk, but they're also sneaky and will look for an opportunity to strike.
The Grassy Gnoll
Explorer
One of the Giants laughs and running his finger down the side of his sword, replies:
"You mock our weapons? This sword was forged by my grandfather, Hamish Worldshaker, who razed fourteen of your 'cities' to the ground. And you come into our home with your tiny bow?"
He laughs again. Lounging as he is, and closer to the PCs height therefore, his bellowing guffaw acts as a gust of wind.
His companions laugh too, and continue to eat, chomping noisily on a whole cow held like a corn cobette.
"Go away, little woman. And take your friends with you."
Another pipes up: "you can leave a skeleton, I'll need a toothpick in a minute"
...aaaand roleplay...
"You mock our weapons? This sword was forged by my grandfather, Hamish Worldshaker, who razed fourteen of your 'cities' to the ground. And you come into our home with your tiny bow?"
He laughs again. Lounging as he is, and closer to the PCs height therefore, his bellowing guffaw acts as a gust of wind.
His companions laugh too, and continue to eat, chomping noisily on a whole cow held like a corn cobette.
"Go away, little woman. And take your friends with you."
Another pipes up: "you can leave a skeleton, I'll need a toothpick in a minute"
...aaaand roleplay...
Similar Threads
D&D 5E (2024)
Snarf's Complete Two Weapon Fighting and Grappling Guide
