D&D General Fighter progression, need help

[Tony Vargas]

So I’m doing a bunch of data analysis of fighter comparisons through the editions. But I need help because I’m not that familiar with 4e, and want a fair and accurate comparison (I’m looking at the books, but since I’m not that familiar, I’ll probably miss something). What I’m looking for are the following, broken down for each level:

Avg HP
Typical AC
Typical To hit bonus

4e was pretty tightly numerically balanced, so those tended to exist in a narrow range. "Average" hp, for instance - you didn't roll hp, you didn't add CON bonus every level, there was not that much variation to average out. A Paladin and Fighter would have very nearly the same hps, in spite of the Paladin 'needing' CHA and/or WIS in addition to STR, while the Fighter could prioritize CON a little higher, for instance.

Monsters were, likewise, pretty tightly balanced that way, by role.

So, for instance, the comparison between standard-issue Fighter vs MM3-formula Soldier hps would be:

15+CON* + 6/level vs 24 + 8/level

(* and CON would rise at least 2 points, or as many as 8, over 30 levels, but that's hardly significant)

Avg typical damage per round

There were some exploits at various times that pulled ahead of the damage curve. For the first couple of years they were 'updated' away - put out like fires - but, after Essentials, the last batch of broken remained unfixed. You can scan old CharOp forums for examples.

(For that matter there was the odd unerrata'd post-E AC exploit, too.)

And, as has already been mentioned, the fighter's DPR will be quite different depending on whether foes defy his mark. DPR's really a pretty poor measure in any edition - ignoring the things the class can or can't do beyond it.

What’s throwing me off the most is looking at powers and how that impacts damage. At level 1, there are dailys to add 3W+str +con damage, and others that do 2W plus those two ability scores, and at wills that add extra damage, etc.

Not really a very significant variation compared to spell loadouts. Don't see a big issue, there. If you're looking at the semi-mythical 'sustained DPR,' you ignore encounters & dailies just like you would spells or rage. If you're looking for 'peak DPR,' you factor in the biggest-damage dailies & combos. Single-target DPR, you ignore close/area attacks. ...

See, this is why I need help to be fair lol. 3e has been a chore by itself, so admittedly the combination of not knowing the system and seeing all of the options makes trying to do the 4e build for each level extremely daunting.

Another consideration is crits became an increasingly important factor in damage throughput as you leveled.

 

[Tony Vargas]

But how to compare hp + healing surges to simply hp in other editions?

The point of this thread seemed to be more about comparing PCs basic combat stats (ie fighters, the most basic class) with monsters, within an edition.

But, even if you were trying to compare across editions, why would you compare hp & healing resources to just hp? Other editions had healing resources, too. You'd compare hps to hps, and healing resources to healing resources. 4e healing resources were primarily daily-recharge surges, which did not have a lot of other uses. 1e/2e healing resources were primarily daily-recharge spells, which had tremendously varied, situational & powerful alternate uses. 3e healing resources includes daily-recharge spells and very cheap consumable items. 5e, slow-recovering single-use HD & faster-recovering (daily or even short-rest), varied/situational/powerful-alternate-use spells.

The comparison is not easy, but it's not the simplified accounting and silo'd functionality of surges that makes it hard. ;P

 

[Garthanos]

4e was pretty tightly numerically balanced, so those tended to exist in a narrow range. "Average" hp, for instance - you didn't roll hp, you didn't add CON bonus every level, there was not that much variation to average out. A Paladin and Fighter would have very nearly the same hps, in spite of the Paladin 'needing' CHA and/or WIS in addition to STR, while the Fighter could prioritize CON a little higher, for instance.

Monsters were, likewise, pretty tightly balanced that way, by role.

So, for instance, the comparison between standard-issue Fighter vs MM3-formula Soldier hps would be:

15+CON* + 6/level vs 24 + 8/level

(* and CON would rise at least 2 points, or as many as 8, over 30 levels, but that's hardly significant)

There were some exploits at various times that pulled ahead of the damage curve. For the first couple of years they were 'updated' away - put out like fires - but, after Essentials, the last batch of broken remained unfixed. You can scan old CharOp forums for examples.

(For that matter there was the odd unerrata'd post-E AC exploit, too.)

And, as has already been mentioned, the fighter's DPR will be quite different depending on whether foes defy his mark. DPR's really a pretty poor measure in any edition - ignoring the things the class can or can't do beyond it.

Not really a very significant variation compared to spell loadouts. Don't see a big issue, there. If you're looking at the semi-mythical 'sustained DPR,' you ignore encounters & dailies just like you would spells or rage. If you're looking for 'peak DPR,' you factor in the biggest-damage dailies & combos. Single-target DPR, you ignore close/area attacks. ...

Another consideration is crits became an increasingly important factor in damage throughput as you leveled.

Remember fighters are supposed to be... so "simple" you know so simple analysis can handle it and simple people can handle them because they just hit it with their swords after all.