Fighters -must- wear heavy armor

[Brother MacLaren]

Now let's not kid ourselves. Fighters (pure Fighters) that were Dexterity-based were completely ineffective in 3.x. Their damage levels were very non-threatening. Most of your Spring Attack-type light Fighters had levels in another class, such as Rogue, Scout or Duelist.

Were they really completely ineffective? The rapier-wielder, maybe. But it looked to me like 3.5's system would have allowed the Spring-Attack polearm-using fighter to be very effective and a great deal of fun to play. Moving around, getting AOOs, trading attacks 2-for-1, doing almost as much damage per hit as the tank, and being mobile enough to get to the enemy caster or help out an ally when needed. Rogue levels would be nice for Evasion, but not necessary for offense.

The Scout obviously adds some power to this build, but it seems pretty solid and fun just using core.

 

[Irda Ranger]

One thing that strikes me is that it seems a bit out of place with the purported Points-Of-Light notion. In a real world context, heavy armor is rare and exceedingly expensive- the noblemen could afford it and wear it, the rank and file couldn't. I wouldn't think a POL setting- where civilization is clustered in small groups, and (presumably) trade and commerce would be similarly confined- that things would be any different.

Of course, this is fantasy, so I suppose trying to make RW comparisons is kind of silly.

Armor usually survives its wearer (other than the occasional hole needing patching). Since D&D-world seems to be stuck in a certain level of technological development for tens of thousands of years, I bet the used armor market is pretty brisk.

This is similar to how only Viking chiefs have chain mail in the beginning, but the pool of available armor grew faster than the population of warriors, and only a few centuries later all the Vikings had (inherited) chainmail.

 

[Lord Zack]

For the record there's already a lightly armored Defender- the Swordmage. The Swordmage will use it's powers to get a higher AC. Why couldn't a fighter do the same?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

A number of people on this thread seem to be complaining that you can't make a lightly armoured, smaller weaponed. nothing-in-the-off hand fighter as good or better than a heavy armoured, large weaponed, heavy shielded fighter, at the same level of skill.

YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO.

A "light" fighter quite simply needs to be MORE SKILLED at what he does to defeat a "heavy" fighter. (IE higher level) or he needs to be very lucky (IE roll way better) or he needs to use his superior mobility to RUN AWAY (higher movement rate.)

That isn't to say that they can't be worthwhile characters, they just have a different shtick (role) and can't equally replace a heavy fighter in its niche (defender), at least not optimally.

This is coming from someone with 10 years experience in a light weapon martial art. (I also LOVE swashbuckling fighter-rogue characters.)

Fitz

 

[pawsplay]

Now let's not kid ourselves. Fighters (pure Fighters) that were Dexterity-based were completely ineffective in 3.x. Their damage levels were very non-threatening. Most of your Spring Attack-type light Fighters had levels in another class, such as Rogue, Scout or Duelist.

Only because it was effective. Most rogues and scouts had levels in other classes, too. Lightly armored fighters can be extremely effective without multiclassing, but why not put some whipped cream on that sundae?

If I were building a Duelist, I'd probably go Fighter 8/Rogue 2/Duelist. I wouldn't be in any hurry to get into Duelist, and my first eight levels would be all fighter.

There seems to an assumption you would neglect Str. If you place Dex first and Str second, getting hit can certainly be third.

 

[hong]

Only because it was effective. Most rogues and scouts had levels in other classes, too. Lightly armored fighters can be extremely effective without multiclassing, but why not put some whipped cream on that sundae?

You misspelled chocolate and peanut butter. Hope this helps!

 

[pawsplay]

A number of people on this thread seem to be complaining that you can't make a lightly armoured, smaller weaponed. nothing-in-the-off hand fighter as good or better than a heavy armoured, large weaponed, heavy shielded fighter, at the same level of skill.

YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO.

A "light" fighter quite simply needs to be MORE SKILLED at what he does to defeat a "heavy" fighter. (IE higher level) or he needs to be very lucky (IE roll way better) or he needs to use his superior mobility to RUN AWAY (higher movement rate.)

That isn't to say that they can't be worthwhile characters, they just have a different shtick (role) and can't equally replace a heavy fighter in its niche (defender), at least not optimally.

This is coming from someone with 10 years experience in a light weapon martial art. (I also LOVE swashbuckling fighter-rogue characters.)

Fitz

I have a fair amount of experience with armored combat and I'm not sure I agree. I guy in a shirt can literally run circles around a guy in plate armor with a shield. The reason you always want armor is because in a battlefield, you are surrounded by constant, highly unpredictable hazards. One on one... it depends on a lot.

Just as an example, take a guy in a leather shirt and a helmet with a halberd, and put him up against a guy in chainmail, shield, and longsword. As long as the guy with the halberd fights conservatively and keeps his distance, I would imagine he actually has the advantage.

The thing is, most RPG players don't like really realistic views of encumbrance and fatigue. Look at Ars Magica 4th edition, which people threw a fit about, despite its rather generous notions of how long you can fight without exhaustion. That is a huge balancing factor on battlefield armor.

 

[pawsplay]

You misspelled chocolate and peanut butter. Hope this helps!

HOOOOOOONG!!!

 

[hong]

HOOOOOOONG!!!

Are you saying that in a Shatnerian voice? I hope you're not saying that in a Shatnerian voice.

 

[pawsplay]

Are you saying that in a Shatnerian voice? I hope you're not saying that in a Shatnerian voice.

What... if... I ... am? What does that mean to your superior Vulcan logic?