D&D 5E Find the Path. What? Why is this a 6th level spell?

[Nefermandias]

Prior to 5E anyway, every edition has tried to codify the world outside the PCs. Remember the cloistered cleric? But generally I agree: D&D settings often try and identify important NPCs in the language of the PC options and I think that is a mistake overall. Either create different options, or don't stat the alchemist that sells tinctures on Brewery Street.

I would argue that NPCs following exactly the same PC rules is a 3Eism people just doesn't seem to let go.

 

[Reynard]

I would argue that NPCs following exactly the same PC rules is a 3Eism people just doesn't seem to let go.

But they didn't -- there was a whole different set of classes for the NPCs. What 3E tried to do was unify all the mechanics between PCs, NPCs and monsters -- and we have thankfully (IMO, obvs) left that behind.

 

[tetrasodium]

I would argue that NPCs following exactly the same PC rules is a 3Eism people just doesn't seem to let go.

3.5 kinda started the trend moving away from that when ECS introduced the idea of NPC classes

Spoiler

NPC CLASSES
Player characters are remarkable individuals. Most inhabitants of Eberron can't advance as quickly or as far as player characters: they simply lack the potential to become true heroes. This is especially true in the arts of magic. Wizardry requires an innate talent and a level of discipline and willpower that few people posses. If the average commoner spent thirty years working with a spellbook. he might not even make it to lst level as a wizard. However, magic is still a part of the world. In addition to the standard NPC classes of warrior. aristocrat. commoner. andexpert. Eberron makes use of two additional NPC classes: a modified version of the adept. and a new class known as the magewright.

I think a couple books expanded further than the page or two linked to that with stuff like aristocrat & such but 5e kinda continued it with backgrounds then wand adepts & more into magewrights when eberron stuff started coming out.

 

[Nefermandias]

But they didn't -- there was a whole different set of classes for the NPCs. What 3E tried to do was unify all the mechanics between PCs, NPCs and monsters -- and we have thankfully (IMO, obvs) left that behind.

The NPC classes from the DMG were meant for ordinary people. Famous, named NPCs and a lot of monsters got real PC classes and feats.

 

[see]

A couple people have brought this up and I just wanted to address it as an aside:

The spells (or classes, or races, or whatever) in the PHB do NOT necessarily represent what is broadly a part of any particular world. It is just what the heroes/protagonists of the campaign may have access to. Why would a temple priest, even a high level one, ever have Find the Path? they wouldn't. They would have Improve Harvest and Marriage Ceremony and Consecrate Remains as spells. It is called the Player's Handbook for a reason. It seems really strange to me that folks want to model the wider world around the PHB -- that way lies madness.

Madness or not, it's the way setting material for the game has been written for a long, long time.

The 19th-level specialty priest of Oghma in charge of the Sanctum of the Scroll in Selgaunt (Forgotten Realms Adventures, 1990, p.104) is by that very specification fully capable of casting find the path in AD&D 2nd edition; it takes work, at the least, to explain why the god of spreading and preserving knowledge would deny his high priest at that temple use of the spell.

 

[Maxperson]

In 5e they toned it down considerably. It no longer gives you passwords and no longer lets you bypass traps. Fair enough. Here's the kicker: the material component must be something from the location to where you are travelling and the location must be familiar to you. So, now it only tells you how to get to a place you already know how to get to? So, it allows you to find your way home out of a dungeon if you're lost. And, because it can't key to a person, you can't even use it to locate someone's whereabouts (like if you had a personal affect of someone you knew). The spell used to indicate that it automatically found your way out of a Maze Spell...but now it no longer specifies this, so I assume it can no longer do that.

It doesn't actually say what you are assuming it says. You can read about a location in detail from a book or hear about it from a person and be familiar with it. There is nothing that says that the only way to become familiar with the location is to have been there. So you can use it to find the quickest way to the Dungeon of Ekki Ekki Ekki Ekki Ptang Zoom Boing Z'nourrwringmm that you just read about in Candle Keep.

 

[Maxperson]

Does it work across planes?

Dora and Boots are randomly dumped onto a layer of the Abyss
"With this magic spell, I can find my way home!"

No. "This spell allows you to find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specific fixed location that you are familiar with on the same plane of existence." However, you can force a demon you just defeated to describe to you a portal out of the Abyss and the spell will get you there since you are now familiar with it.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

to refocus: has anyone used this spell in game? I’ve only seen one person so far.

@CapnZapp has, in two posts, backed the developers nerf of the spell but I’m curious if this spell, in its current iteration has actually been used in a game. I’m just curious how often it gets used and in what context. Not theoretically but in practice. In an actual game.

 

[Reynard]

Madness or not, it's the way setting material for the game has been written for a long, long time.

The 19th-level specialty priest of Oghma in charge of the Sanctum of the Scroll in Selgaunt (Forgotten Realms Adventures, 1990, p.104) is by that very specification fully capable of casting find the path in AD&D 2nd edition; it takes work, at the least, to explain why the god of spreading and preserving knowledge would deny his high priest at that temple use of the spell.

You took a specific example and turned into into a general rule. What if we instead asked why would Kelemvor offer it to his high priest in charge of burial practices?

 

[tetrasodium]

to refocus: has anyone used this spell in game? I’ve only seen one person so far.

@CapnZapp has, in two posts, backed the developers nerf of the spell but I’m curious if this spell, in its current iteration has actually been used in a game. I’m just curious how often it gets used and in what context. Not theoretically but in practice. In an actual game.

Years of running AL 2x/week plus my home game. Don't believe I've ever seen someone cast it or even bring it up in discussion over how to solve a problem