D&D (2024) Fireball is a C Tier Spell

My first experience with fireball is something I still consider one of my formative D&D experiences.

I was playing Pool of Radiance on a Commodore 64, and ha just made 5th level and memorized this promising sounding fireball spell. I find myself in that kobold cave up north of Phlan.

I cast fireball...and it is glorious.

For those who do not know, in those old Gold Box AD&D 1e based games, combat took place on a tactical grid. As I recall, it is a 7x7 grid. That fireball (at least when cast indoors) covers all but the 3 squares in each corner.

That cave is jam packed with a screen full of kobolds. Now there were probably a few empty spaces so I didn't hit the full 37 possible kobolds in a single spell, but it sure felt like it! Watching those notifications as monster after monster just kept dying was awesome. To me, that is what fireball is in D&D. And battles with hordes of mooks are an essential part of D&D.

Whenever I play and people are casting AoE spells like fireball at one or two targets it feels like such a waste. It feels even worse when there aren't regularly large groups of opponents to fireball.

Those of you who are used to just fighting one or a small few monsters all the time are really missing out IMO.

Now, fireball isn't as relatively strong in 5e (especially 5.5, but I play 5.0). However, when you actually have proper opportunities for it to shine (and it doesn't have to be 30 kobolds, 10 orcs or bandits is fine), it's still very good when you first get it. It isn't going to remain as good at high levels, but that's kind of normal and expected.

My favorite 5e character's first fireball experience was in Ghosts of Saltmarsh. One of our characters is part of an order of "assassins for the greater good", and to give them a good personal interest in the goings on, they were told by their HQ that a Scarlet Brotherhood enclave existed in Saltmarsh and tasked with finding and eliminating it.

After doing their part in the assault on the sahuagin, the party finally managed to get as much as info as we likely were going to be able to. And that culminated in knowing when and where a group of SB members would be clandestinely meeting (at night in one of those abandoned buildings on the north coast part of town).

I believe we managed to surprise them, and attacked. I don't remember the total number of opponents, but the number 14 feels about right. These aren't all just guard statblocks. There was an assassin and some others in between in CR. It came out as a Deadly x2 or such in the math (which yeah, isn't necessarily always that scary, bur this was a solid challenge where we felt threatened).

The way it worked out, my character and our blade pact warlock were both in the thick of things. I think the rest of the party was still on the perimeter. But the opportunity was too good. My character turned to his nearby warlock companion, who had taken a good wound or too, sort of looked at him sheepishly as he said "sorry"...and then I dropped the fireball right on top of the both of us (which allowed it to hit most, and maybe all, of the opponents).

Fireball sauce. It's that important.

Neither of us died (and we do have D&D resurrection magic in our game, or I would not have risked my friend's character), but lots of enemy hit points went up in flames. I think they were a strong enough group that only 2-4 or so outright died (this was near the beginning of the fight), but it certainly softened their group up enough that it was worth hitting 2 of our party of 5 (well, 6 or 7 if you count NPCs) along with them.

And that, my friends, is D&D to me.

(Fireballs not optional.)
 
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Whist fire resistance and immunity are not uncommon, fire vulnerability and fire damage needed to stop regeneration are also not uncommon. I think it's fair to say that most casters with fireball also have other spells to deal with different situations.

And it's an error to look as how common resistances are across the range of monsters in the Monster Manual. Some types of monsters are encountered far more often than others. Personally, I use lots of undead (so necrotic sucks) and very rarely use fiends (so fire is fine).

Necrotic still decent to use poisons bad because of undead.

Force is the best overall but mostly low damage. Radiant wins imho as few vulnerability as well and decent damage and spirit guardians.
 

Long ranges are 100-200 feet. From what i read, published adventures rarely or never have encounters on open plains, light forests and similar terrain where both groups can reasonably see each other at few hundred feet and engagement starts at longbow ranges, with enemies going for cover, shooting from half cover and things like that. Or attacking/defending fortified positions.

So yeah, i agree, if most encounters are in closed spaces or start in near melee range, there isn't much use for fireball.

One cheese with fireball is - you crack a door of a room with enemy just so you can see inside, have other character ready action to close door when you cast, shoot into room and close door. It's like tossing hand grenade. You might not kill, but you will inflict pain.
 

Citation? I don't see anything in the spell description about it not damaging items.
Edit: I just noticed you guys already covered this :) however, I think mostly about how Fireball melts gold, not as much about other items. Cone of Cold was to prevent all the coins from melting into huge lumps.

Compare Fireball which specifically states that it damages items, and highlights soft metals such as gold.
I remember reading somewhere that DMs would punish players who carelessly threw around fireballs, by causing the gold to melt into huge lumps that couldn't be transported out of dungeons. But then Cone of Cold was created as a higher level AoE spell that didn't cause the gold to melt (just freeze, but could then be thawed again). But I can't remember where I read it.
 
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Long ranges are 100-200 feet. From what i read, published adventures rarely or never have encounters on open plains, light forests and similar terrain where both groups can reasonably see each other at few hundred feet and engagement starts at longbow ranges, with enemies going for cover, shooting from half cover and things like that. Or attacking/defending fortified positions.

So yeah, i agree, if most encounters are in closed spaces or start in near melee range, there isn't much use for fireball.

One cheese with fireball is - you crack a door of a room with enemy just so you can see inside, have other character ready action to close door when you cast, shoot into room and close door. It's like tossing hand grenade. You might not kill, but you will inflict pain.

I've done very longe ranges occasionally.

Big problem is not all PCs have attacks at that range. In one case in 3E one PC built for range was the only one who could engage.

Everyone else was twiddling their thumbs.

Lomge range is really over 60' imho most of the time. Relevant other day at 65' big room. Can't counterspell.
 

That's why everyone in my games has bow (martials usually longbow) or long range cantrip like firebolt (or eldricht blast with eldricht spear invocation). So they don't twiddle their thumbs while their opponents pelt them with arrows from the distance. As a player, i always have at least one option for attacking at longer distances.

I think it depends also on the style of games you run. If you have more outdoor adventures, encounters tend to start at longer ranges. If you have more indoor adventures (like classic dungeon crawling) then engagement distances get shorter. That will be big difference how useful or not so useful some spells are.
 

That's why everyone in my games has bow (martials usually longbow) or long range cantrip like firebolt (or eldricht blast with eldricht spear invocation). So they don't twiddle their thumbs while their opponents pelt them with arrows from the distance. As a player, i always have at least one option for attacking at longer distances.

I think it depends also on the style of games you run. If you have more outdoor adventures, encounters tend to start at longer ranges. If you have more indoor adventures (like classic dungeon crawling) then engagement distances get shorter. That will be big difference how useful or not so useful some spells are.

My thoughts are you want longer than 60, more than 120 is rare.
 

It's also insurance you don't know if you're going to get hit with a save.

Insurance only does something in the event that the thing insured against occurs.

It's still doing something all the time.
it really isn’t.

Fireball can also whiff hard as fire immunity is very common relative to everything else.
. Alternatively don’t use fireball on fire immune things.

Fire resistance as well. I'e see sub 10 damage fires due to tgat. 22 rolled halved to 11 half on save for 5.

This solely depends on your specific campaign.

I'm just running adventures by the book I'm not going through deliberately picking fire resistance stuff it's just very common (beaten by poison).

You are trying to make an amalgamation of how many adventures you’ve ran and treat that is if it can stand in for a random adventure. That’s not how statistics work.

So that 1st level spel is more reliable and generally gets rated as S tier in 5.0 at least and probably no lower than A.

Bless is only rated highly because it’s one of the few 1st level spells that can do anything meaningful in higher level play. It’s not a particularly strong spell. Its okay. It’s highly overrated by almost everyone though.
 

Edit: I just noticed you guys already covered this :) however, I think mostly about how Fireball melts gold, not as much about other items. Cone of Cold was to prevent all the coins from melting into huge lumps.

Compare Fireball which specifically states that it damages items, and highlights soft metals such as gold.
I remember reading somewhere that DMs would punish players who carelessly threw around fireballs, by causing the gold to melt into huge lumps that couldn't be transported out of dungeons. But then Cone of Cold was created as a higher level AoE spell that didn't cause the gold to melt (just freeze, but could then be thawed again). But I can't remember where I read it.
Given the number of 1's for Frost saving throws, most things would be fine, of course.
 


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