Fireballing dead bodies

[the Jester]

Unless you, the DM, are willing to be flexible in (re)gaining treasure, any character who loses all of his gear should, basically, retire from the party. He simply cannot compete against those high level challenges (unless he's a sorceror or something like that).

Having had an epic tpk that one of the party's cohorts (not with them at the time) managed to restore them to life after (with no equipment at all), I have to disagree. It definitely increases the level of any given challenge against them, but it's not so overwhelming that it's hopeless. I found that awarding xp as if the party members were 2 levels lower than actual worked very well to represent the increased difficulties they faced; YMMV.

Edit: On topic, the original poster and his group ruled correctly.

 

[glass]

Yes, but in a game with no facing how do you determine what items are under someone on the ground. Did you fall with your arm outstretched or clutching your chest? Did you fall forward or backward? I don't think the rules of the game cover any of this.

I'd say 50-50 chance of falling on your front or your back is the simplest. If you fall on your back, your backpack props you up so items under you have cover. If you fall on your front you lie flat and items on your belt or on bandoliers are protected.

Modified for circumstances, obviously, ie if the ground is vey bumpy, or if you're not wearing a backpack.


glass.

 

[maggot]

I didn't say you smile and give him his gear back. All the DM has to do is put in some appropriate treasure in the near future, or large cash sums, or what have you, and NOT do any messing with treasure allocations. Otherwise the guy may as well quit.

So PC1 fireballs the PC2's dead body, and the DM should give more treasure to the group? I would think that PC1 should be the one compensating PC2.

As for quitting, doesn't anyone like roleplaying hardship, or is it all about having the appropriate gear for the appropriate challenge?

 

[RigaMortus2]

Is a corpse considered an object? If so:

(a) What is the hardness and hp/inch for flesh?
(b) " " for bone?

 

[ThirdWizard]

So PC1 fireballs the PC2's dead body, and the DM should give more treasure to the group? I would think that PC1 should be the one compensating PC2.

In the short term, yes, but the DM should make an effort to keep PC wealth fairly near the table or it will be difficult to use CR and EL appropriately. Also, other PCs will possibly start to outshine the PC whose items have been destroyed. Thus, it is in the DM's best interest to get the PCs back up to speed as quickly as possible within the believability of the game.

It's a complex game, but its still a game after all. It's like when I was showing Resident Evil 4 to my friends and one person was amazed that a killed raven dropped some money. My response was that no matter how real it looks, a game is going to be a game.

Is a corpse considered an object? If so:

(a) What is the hardness and hp/inch for flesh?
(b) " " for bone?

That's a whooole other can of worms. Suddenly Raise Dead will no longer work if collateral damage starts destroying corpses. And possibly Ressurection. It is interesting that a character can be hit for hundreds of damage while alive and nothing will happen to their body, but as soon as they die one well placed fireball might destroy their corpse completely... This is one of those cases where I put my fingers in my ears and repeat lalalalala over and over.

I guess the RBDM will find great use for it, though.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

As for quitting, doesn't anyone like roleplaying hardship, or is it all about having the appropriate gear for the appropriate challenge?

It is not that simple because, depending on your role in the party, "hardship" may not mean "less effective". It may be a euphemism for "dead again".

If you are a front line fighter, underequipped, and just died, there is a very real risk of domino effect where the PC dies a second or third time. If you are trailing three levels behind party average and do not have an amazing AC, being brave is just a fancy form of suicide.

And let me put is this way...if my fighter has fewer HP than your Wizard, are you going to let me hide behind your skirts with my little bow and still take a full share of the treasure? You do like roleplaying hardship, right?

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Option d:
Convince the spellcaster to take a level of Archmage and grab Mastery of Shaping so he can avoid blasting party members when blasting away at enemies.

Also, mine other sources for spells like Explosive Cascade and Firebrand, which are much more controllable than your standard fireball. Explosive Cacade, in particular, is made for this situation; since it only affects (Caster Level) squares and doesn't have to be a staight line, it's perfect for close support.

You can also use more targeted spells, or those that don't do damage. Toss an Orb of Acid onto the guy who's standing on top of poor Smiley; it won't do jack to Smiley's stuff, but will ruin the NPC's day. Slapping them with negative levels or bad status effects is fun, too, and won't harm items or corpses.

Brad

 

[maggot]

It's a complex game, but its still a game after all. It's like when I was showing Resident Evil 4 to my friends and one person was amazed that a killed raven dropped some money. My response was that no matter how real it looks, a game is going to be a game.

You could look at it that way, or you could at it as a breach of suspension of disbelief. Similarly, if you read a story where an archer killed a bunch of ravens because they carried pounds of gold each, you might think "hey, it's only a book" or you might think "wha the heck is going on here."

D&D is it a game or is it a simulation of heroic fantasy? Or is it both?

 

[ThirdWizard]

You could look at it that way, or you could at it as a breach of suspension of disbelief. Similarly, if you read a story where an archer killed a bunch of ravens because they carried pounds of gold each, you might think "hey, it's only a book" or you might think "wha the heck is going on here."

D&D is it a game or is it a simulation of heroic fantasy? Or is it both?

Well in D&D ravens don't drop money. However, it is expected that level X characters have Y gp worth of equipment, at the very least that two characters of the same level have around the same wealth. Because its a game. If it were a book then wealth would make no difference becase 1) Xander isn't supposed to be as powerful as Buffy and 2) if the writer wants Conan to kill the bad guy, he can do it in a loin cloth.

 

[moritheil]

Which amounts to smiling and giving his gear back over the next few sessions, as opposed to all at once. There's no real change.

If you play with people who quit at their first setback, let me know how that works out for you. I'm sure it's a lot of fun for you, having to give them stuff in order to keep them around.

Obviously VoP will never fully make up for it. But it is something cool that he could do, and it would develop his character more. Of course, if you don't have an RP-involved game, then the only existence of a character IS combat.

I didn't say you smile and give him his gear back. All the DM has to do is put in some appropriate treasure in the near future, or large cash sums, or what have you, and NOT do any messing with treasure allocations. Otherwise the guy may as well quit.

And no, VoP doesn't fix it, because many of VoP's benefits can be 'missed'. ie - if you weren't already VoP when you got to a level that has a benefit, you don't get that levels benefit.