Firing into a Antil magic shell

[dcollins]

Where and when does the ranged attack occur if not in your own square before the arrow leaves your square?

This is simply not answerable under the D&D rules. On the one hand, it's pure speculation. But on the other hand the meta-game die roll doesn't take place at any particular instant of in-game time. The die roll represents the whole action -- nock-arrow, draw-string, aim, let fly, hit target, possibly ricochet into bystanders, the whole ball of wax.

If you asked the same question about a sword-swing the answer would be the same. Q: "Does the die roll occur before or after the sword is swung?" A: Neither, it doesn't even represent any particular individual sword-stroke. From PHB p. 123:

Attack Rolls: An attack roll represents your attempts to strike your opponent, including feints and wild swings. It does not represent a single swing of the sword, for example. Rather, it simply indicates whether, over perhaps several attempts, you managed to connect solidly.

With regard to the original question, this is very much a DM's call by the existing rules. I'm persuaded by the other posters that the cleanest solution is to allow bow enhancements to hit, but not arrow enhancements.

 

[Solana]

my defenition

to my knowledge which i will state now is not of god level with 3e DND the bonus on the arrow stays on the arrow untill it makes contact with the opponent it was fired at ?

So by that theory shouldnt the bonus for the arrow from the bow be cancelled when it enters the Anti magic field ?

and for your defenition of the bonus to the tohit of the arrow it would be better described at adding points of damage to the arrow which it then gives the points to the opponent.

If this theory is used then the bonus of the bow would be cancelled out by the field.

and for the arrow, the bows magic doesnt make it travel faster or hit harder it just transfers more damage then a normal bow

anyway if you want a bowman to shoot at a creature with damage reduction in a AMF isnt it a supernatural ability or what (ie cancelled with a AMF )

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: my defenition

anyway if you want a bowman to shoot at a creature with damage reduction in a AMF isnt it a supernatural ability or what (ie cancelled with a AMF )

That's not the point. People are saying that since a bow's enhancement bonus does not help penetrate DR, that it is not magic "on the arrow", but rather magic that "propels the arrow".

Just like you can throw a rock into an Anti-Life Shell, even though you couldn't walk into it, the bow's magic can throw the arrow into the Anti-Magic Shell, even though the bow wouldn't be magic inside it.

Penetrating DR is not the goal - it's just an observable phenomenon that provides data on how the bow's enhancement bonus works.

-Hyp.

 

[Pax]

Re: my defenition

to my knowledge which i will state now is not of god level with 3e DND the bonus on the arrow stays on the arrow untill it makes contact with the opponent it was fired at ?

Actually, in the case of antimagic field, the arrow loses it's +'s (and otehr magical properties, inherent or otherwise) ten feet away from it's target.

and for your defenition of the bonus to the tohit of the arrow it would be better described at adding points of damage to the arrow which it then gives the points to the opponent.

Which already happens, since the arrow's enhancement bonus is a bonus to hit and to damage.

and for the arrow, the bows magic doesnt make it travel faster or hit harder it just transfers more damage then a normal bow

That would mean, travelling faster. Seriously; damage form an arrow is entirely dependant on the arrow's kinetic energy, the shape of the arrowhead, and where the arrow hits (a hit to the center of your chest is likely to be more damaging than a hit to your foot ...).

 

[Elvinis75]

Hey gang look at it this way. Most weapons in the game are a one part system. Swords, spears …etc. Projectile weapon are different. They are a two part system. The launcher and the shell. To use an example I’ll pick tanks.

Tank A: Fires normal shells with standard powder and optics.
Tank B: Fires AP/Explosive shells with standard powder and optics.

When Tank A & B fire they both have the same chance to hit the target. However Tank B when it hits the target has a better chance to beat the armor and have the shell explode inside for more killing power if it gets through.

Think of the bow and arrows as working the same way. The bow affects the launch or shot if you will. The arrow affects the impact (penetration) and resulting damage. An archer with a magical +2 bow of shock pulls back the string and releases a +2 arrow. At the moment of release the magic helps him to get more draw and magically guides him to make a better shot. The shock effect is transferred to the projectile. The arrow streaks to the target. When it hits the target the magic on the arrow is released helping both pierce the armor/flesh and if successful releases a normal magical blast of energy doing an additional 2 damage. Then at the same time the pure magic energy is released a blast of electrical energy goes off for an additional 1d6 more damage.

With the antimagic field all the magical qualities of the arrow are removed. The normal master crafted qualities are not removed. So our archer fires and all of the stuff on the (launcher) bow end happen, given that it is outside the AMF, the arrow enters the field and loses the special penetration and energy release qualities before it hit the target. It then hits the target as a master crafted projectile (with extra piercing power).

I think the thing that it important to note here is that it is a two piece weapon and thus operates in said fashion.

 

[Rebecca Borgstrom]

Just for fun!

You're trying to shoot a cleric, who has just cast a spell, laughed an evil laugh, and cried, "I have put up an /antimagic field/! Nothing can stop me now!" You're not sure whether to believe her.

Between you and the cleric, there's a giant you don't like. He's 15' away from the cleric---definitely not in the /antimagic field/, if it exists. He's also big enough to give the cleric 1/4 cover. You don't mind shooting him, but you'd rather hit the cleric.

You have either a +3 bow and two normal arrows or a normal bow and two +3 arrows. One of the two arrows is poisoned. Naturally, this is the arrow you fire first.

You have a BAB of +10, a 14 Dex, and no other modifiers to your attack roll.

The cleric has AC 23, but the cover increases this to 25. The giant has AC 15.

Your iterative archery attack rolls are 10 and 14.

If your weapon enhancement ignores antimagic, then this is no problem. The poisoned arrow hits AC 25 and hits your target. The second arrow hits AC 24 and hits the giant.

Suppose that an antimagic field, if it exists, would invalidate your weapon's magic.

Does it matter to the giant?

The problem is: if your weapon enhancement goes away, leaving only a masterwork bonus, then these shots miss by 2 and 3, respectively. The giant is suddenly hit by the poisoned arrow and missed by the regular arrow---even though the arrows never entered the /antimagic field/. Why did the first arrow hit? Why did the second arrow miss?

If you rule that the poisoned arrow misses the giant, then you have an oddity: you missed the cleric only because the cover was there, but you didn't actually hit the cover. Does the arrow go around the giant?

If you rule that both arrows hit the giant, then you have another oddity: the giant's only providing 1/4 cover, but gets hit 20% of the time. (When you roll to hit AC 21-24.) The /antimagic field/ behind him makes him a very big target.

If you house rule that the enhancement bonus applies regardless of the /field/, then you have oddities involving whips and polearms of really large monsters. (You can't entirely ignore the fourth oddity, since some creatures might have a rakshasa-like instant-death vulnerability to being struck with the haft of a weapon. Some, er, very odd creatures.)

You could rule that the enhancement bonus helps overcome cover that's outside the field. This is actually a pretty good ruling for you, but it's absurdly good for the giant---he can stand right in the arrow lane and never get hit. It would strongly suggest that magic remains with the arrow all the way to the target, at the very least---since you care an awful lot about whether the cleric cast /antimagic field/ or a Widened /antimagic field/ with a 15' radius.

Rebecca

 

[Elvinis75]

The cleric has AC 23, but the cover increases this to 25. The giant has AC 15.

If your weapon enhancement ignores antimagic, then this is no problem. The poisoned arrow hits AC 25 and hits your target. The second arrow hits AC 24 and hits the giant.

Which weapon? Tecnically there are two weapons at work. The bow and the arrow. The magic on the arrow helps to beat cover outside the AMF. I guess this makes me readdress the fact that arrow magic "to hit" is only penetration. It has to be flight aid also on the way to the target.

You could rule that the enhancement bonus helps overcome cover that's outside the field. This is actually a pretty good ruling for you, but it's absurdly good for the giant---he can stand right in the arrow lane and never get hit. It would strongly suggest that magic remains with the arrow all the way to the target, at the very least---since you care an awful lot about whether the cleric cast /antimagic field/ or a Widened /antimagic field/ with a 15' radius. Rebecca [/QUOTE]

I think that this isn't a bad ruling. I would think that I would rule that it could still hit the giant. Take the roll and detremine if it would have hit the cleric normally w/o AMF. If it misses by 1 or 2 it hits the giant. Then when applying the actual hit miss to the cleric recalculate for the AMF. It is strange but it still makes it.
The archer fires the +3 arrow and hits AC 23 or 24 not subtracting for the AMF. It hits the Giant. Rolls 25 it streaks through and hits the field losing guidance and penetration power hits the armor of the cleric and fails to punch through to deal damage. I know that it sounds funny but then again that is magic for ya!

 

[melkoriii]

Example - Bull's Strength and a Mighty bow. The Enhancement bonus to Strength is outside the AM Field. Does the consequent bonus to damage apply to the arrow?

Cat's Grace. The Enhancement bonus to Dexterity is outside the AM Field. Does the consequent bonus to the attack roll apply to the arrow?

We know that the enhancement bonus of the bow isn't actually "transferred" to the arrow - otherwise it would allow you to bypass DR. Shouldn't the bow's bonus to damage, then, be more like a Bull's Strength on the wielder than a Greater Magic Weapon on the arrow?

-Hyp.

This is the kicker HS.

Any bonuses from things out side the AMF still apply.

THis is how I will rule in my game as it has not come up yet.

The bow is still magical and so all bonuse from it still apply.

The arrow is not magical after entering the AMF and so its bonuses do not apply.

The Bow does not give its bonus to the arrow. If it did you could not stack a arrow's and bow's bonus.

 

[Rebecca Borgstrom]

I think that this isn't a bad ruling. I would think that I would rule that it could still hit the giant. Take the roll and detremine if it would have hit the cleric normally w/o AMF. If it misses by 1 or 2 it hits the giant. Then when applying the actual hit miss to the cleric recalculate for the AMF. It is strange but it still makes it.
The archer fires the +3 arrow and hits AC 23 or 24 not subtracting for the AMF. It hits the Giant. Rolls 25 it streaks through and hits the field losing guidance and penetration power hits the armor of the cleric and fails to punch through to deal damage.

Hm! Now, for the sake of argument, what happens if it's a -3 arrow? (I'm not sure if these still exist canonically, so this may not be entirely relevant.)

 

[Camarath]

Hm! Now, for the sake of argument, what happens if it's a -3 arrow? (I'm not sure if these still exist canonically, so this may not be entirely relevant.)

If an arrow had a magical penalty to hit (say it was cursed) then that would be suppressed by the antimagic field. I think that current opinion is that, before the point at which the arrow enters the antimagic field all it's bonuses apply but after the arrow enters all it bonuses are suppressed. Thus you roll your attack add all bonuses then subtract the arrow's bonus (and magical properties bestowed upon it) when it enters the field.