First Dark Sun Excerpt!!!

[Wik]

BOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I liked everything I was reading right up until that point! It would be like saying "halflings, which are also known as gnomes, are riverboat nomads who love to wear shoes..." when they released 4.0. They could save themselves some effort to actually make a gnome race & silence complainers that "gnomes were extinct" at the same time by doing it, but they didn't because they wanted to do it right, instead of cutting corners. The rest of the stuff looks good, but I don't like this kind of stuff. Actual real half-giants are a part of Athas, and shouldn't be swept under the sand.

What's next? "Thri-Kreen, also known as Half-Orcs, are..."

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but I think the designers realized they could save some page space and redundancy if they just made half-giants analagous to goliaths. In so doing, they figured they'd announce the mechanical similarity through that little analog.

I'll be a little annoyed/disappointed if, come actual DARK SUN art, we see "half-giants" appearing as Goliaths instead of dreadlocked muscle-bound dudes (y'know, as blasted nonexistant Athasian God intended).

So we'll see in a little bit, whether "Goliaths" are presented as "4e goliaths", or as "2e Half-giants with a new name".

As for the list in general, I can get behind it. I think it's a good idea, and well presented.

The only negative I have with this entire page is the cover page for the campaign setting, and even then it's just the usual "why do we always get a cover with a guy and a girl, posing?". The cover would be so much cooler if it were, say, a merchant caravan in a silt storm, with the guards all covering their faces with shawls... while we see a bunch of Gith or Belgoi getting ready for an ambush....

 

[deadsmurf]

So the big strong and hardy men (and women) who live in harsh climates (the mountains) don't work for you as big, strong and hardy women (and men) who live in harsh climates (the desert)?

The general consensus that I've seen is that most people are quite happy with the utilization of a race that fits very well as Half-Giants. Otherwise you have two races that take just about the exact same character niches mechanically, which means invariably one or the other will get sidelined.

The Halfling/Gnome divide is a completely different picture, where one is a race with a martial bent to it, the other with a very arcane bent - but both have a unique niche within the world of D&D. BUT if gnomes and halflings didn't have the history and world-building story behind their differences, I myself wouldn't have been unhappy with "Halflings, also sometimes known as gnomes..." (and Half-Giants don't have as much cache or history in the D&D milieu as gnomes do, being basically in one product line, and included in a few other products)

I'm happy to use goliaths mechanically to represent a lot of different races in the world I most often play in, (Eberron) including Half-Giants, Eneko and of course Goliaths themselves.

BOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I liked everything I was reading right up until that point! It would be like saying "halflings, which are also known as gnomes, are riverboat nomads who love to wear shoes..." when they released 4.0. They could save themselves some effort to actually make a gnome race & silence complainers that "gnomes were extinct" at the same time by doing it, but they didn't because they wanted to do it right, instead of cutting corners. The rest of the stuff looks good, but I don't like this kind of stuff. Actual real half-giants are a part of Athas, and shouldn't be swept under the sand.

What's next? "Thri-Kreen, also known as Half-Orcs, are..."

 

[BASHMAN]

So the big strong and hardy men (and women) who live in harsh climates (the mountains) don't work for you as big, strong and hardy women (and men) who live in harsh climates (the desert)?

The general consensus that I've seen is that most people are quite happy with the utilization of a race that fits very well as Half-Giants. Otherwise you have two races that take just about the exact same character niches mechanically, which means invariably one or the other will get sidelined.

The Halfling/Gnome divide is a completely different picture, where one is a race with a martial bent to it, the other with a very arcane bent - but both have a unique niche within the world of D&D. BUT if gnomes and halflings didn't have the history and world-building story behind their differences, I myself wouldn't have been unhappy with "Halflings, also sometimes known as gnomes..." (and Half-Giants don't have as much cache or history in the D&D milieu as gnomes do, being basically in one product line, and included in a few other products)

I'm happy to use goliaths mechanically to represent a lot of different races in the world I most often play in, (Eberron) including Half-Giants, Eneko and of course Goliaths themselves.

Are goliaths naturally psionic?

 

[abyssaldeath]

Are goliaths naturally psionic?

In Athas they are.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

That's a silly question in Athas, everyone is.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yes, the 8 part preview had been psoted before, but a lot of people probably missed it. It was a good start for the Dark Sun preview schedule.

I am quite happy with goliaths as Half-Giants. We can still have real giants out in the Sea of Silt. I do not want to deal with all the rules problems/abuses of having large PCs.

I will be getting Dark Sun ASAP.

Hopefully ASAP is fast for Amazon this time.

 

[Wik]

Are goliaths naturally psionic?

Mechanically, are 2nd edition half-giants? (Any moreso than athasian humans, elves, etc)

 

[DracoSuave]

Mechanically, are 2nd edition half-giants? (Any moreso than athasian humans, elves, etc)

In second edition, every player character had a wild talent.

As well, every race in the game had 'U' for their racial limit as a psionicist (meaning they had no level limit)

Plus, many psionic powers keyed off of constitution (in the first 2e psi rules), which a half giant got a +2 bonus to... a not inconsiderable advantage. In the Player's Option/Revised Darksun psionic rules, a Half-Giant had no advantage to MTHAC0.

So the answer is 'No they are not more so than other PC races in dark sun, but yes, they are definately naturally psionic.'


As for goliaths....


I have no problem with goliaths filling in for half-giants. It's always seemed to me that the goliath race was always intended to be the 'half-giants out of Athas' race.

To quote from a review on the Races of Stone: 'The goliath is a new nomadic, mountain-dwelling race. They are barbaric and competitive in nature, and provide a distinct contrast to the other races.'

While their competition isn't in the same way a half-giant's was, it's pretty clear there's parallels between goliaths and half-giants that are not merely coincidence.

Why be upset about something that always was?

 

[A2Z]

If you look at the bottom of the Eight Characteristics of Athas article at the excerpt schedule, next to "Ch 6: Running a Dark Sun Game" is a picture of an Athasian Half-Giant/Goliath.

Let the whining commence.

 

[DarthMouth]

If you look at the bottom of the Eight Characteristics of Athas article at the excerpt schedule, next to "Ch 6: Running a Dark Sun Game" is a picture of an Athasian Half-Giant/Goliath.

Let the whining commence.

I likey! Ones more than others..

well..

not the art under july 26: characters options.. thats realy not Dark Sunny, and hope dont get the book.