D&D (2024) Fixing ranger with higher level mark spells.

[Zardnaar]

1e rangers where a fighter subclass, with spells and bonus damage to some specific creatures.

Which I guess is Aragon. A fighter with a few spells and a plot sword.

And favored Enemy vs half the MM stereotypical Orc and giant variations.

 

[cbwjm]

I mean, this whole thread is about changing rules to better suit people's ideas of fun. If you think hunters mark is an ok central mechanic, or don't want this thread to be about everyone's favorite bespoke hipster ranger idea, that's fine. But the idea that we can't change the base ranger seems odd.

This thread is about adding higher level mark spells, not about removing hunter's mark...

 

[Minigiant]

Sure, but you need to somehow add in "Hunter's Mark" so it benefits from the ranger features.

I.e. can't break on concentration, advantage on the target, and improved damage dice.

Gloom Stalker's Mark​

2nd level Illusion
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 90 feet
Target: A creature that you can see within range
Components: V
Duration: 1 hour
Classes: Ranger
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, the creature is under the hunter's mark spell except the extra damage you deal is 1d8 necrotic damage. Also magical darkness spreads in a 5 foot radius centered on the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack. The darkness last until the start of your next turn or until you end it as a reaction.

If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your Concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your Concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.

Horizon Walker's Mark​

5th level Conjuration
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 90 feet
Target: A creature that you can see within range
Components: V
Duration: 24 hours
Classes: Ranger
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, the creature is under the hunter's mark spell except the extra damage you deal is 2d6 fire damage. Also whenever you hit it with a weapon attack. As a bonus action, you and up to four willing creatures are transported to unoccupied spaces within 30 feet of the marked quarry, regardless of what plane it is on, and the spell ends.

 

[mellored]

Until the spell ends, the creature is under the hunter's mark spell​

Not sure that wording quite works with

"Taking damage can’t break your Concentration on Hunter’s Mark."
Or
"The damage die of your Hunter's Mark is a d10 rather than a d6."

Maybe something like...

Casting Time: no action, when you cast Hunter's Mark.
Duration: same as the triggering Hunter's Mark.
You modify your Hunter's Mark spell to also do X.

 

[cbwjm]

Not sure that wording quite works with

"Taking damage can’t break your Concentration on Hunter’s Mark."
Or
"The damage die of your Hunter's Mark is a d10 rather than a d6."

Maybe something like...

Casting Time: no action, when you cast Hunter's Mark.
Duration: same as the triggering Hunter's Mark.
You modify your Hunter's Mark spell to also do X.

I like this idea, I was thinking of creating a set of metamagic spells (or, I guess, updating spells from 2e) that worked the same way. I think I'd stopped running games by the time I'd put them together.

I'm not sure how useful it would be since it's only when the ranger hits the target that the bonus damage applies, but a spell that allows the ranger to mark two targets?

Bursting Mark. When you hit your marked target, adjacent creatures of your choice also take damage from hunter's mark.

 

[mellored]

I like this idea, I was thinking of creating a set of metamagic spells (or, I guess, updating spells from 2e) that worked the same way.

"Metamagic spells" is a good term. And yea, it could work for other classes too. Though you'd want to be careful not to allow too much nova.

Shape spell.
Casting time: no action, you cast an area spell of level 1 or lower.
You can change the shape to a cone or a radius.
At Higher Level: increase the triggering spell level by 1 for each spell level.

Maybe eating the sorcerer's gimmick too much?



They with Hunter's Mark being long duration, I think it’s fine to use it for them. It would give you a reason to upcast it.

I'm not sure how useful it would be since it's only when the ranger hits the target that the bonus damage applies, but a spell that allows the ranger to mark two targets?

Bursting Mark. When you hit your marked target, adjacent creatures of your choice also take damage from hunter's mark.

Seems ok for level 1.

 

[mellored]

Also.

Seems like it might be ok to allow a few metamagic spells to stack. Maybe a max of 1 per spell level, or part of upcasting each one.
Build your own Hunter's Mark.

I e
Base Hunter's Mark (+1d6)
+slowing Mark
+pact tactics Mark

Spend 3 spell slots, get a powerful Mark. And try not to lose concentration.

 

[cbwjm]

"Metamagic spells" is a good term. And yea, it could work for other classes too. Though you'd want to be careful not to allow too much nova.

Shape spell.
Casting time: no action, you cast an area spell of level 1 or lower.
You can change the shape to a cone or a radius.
At Higher Level: increase the triggering spell level by 1 for each spell level.

Maybe eating the sorcerer's gimmick too much?



They with Hunter's Mark being long duration, I think it’s fine to use it for them. It would give you a reason to upcast it.

Seems ok for level 1.

Not sure if it's in my notes (I'd actually have to hunt for them), but anything that eats into the sorcerer's gimmick would probably be at a minimum level where the sorcerer is still far more efficient. With level limits like you posted, it would be even less efficient, but still maybe a good use, than sorcerer's metamagic ability so I wouldn't worry too much about stealing their thunder.

Also.

Seems like it might be ok to allow a few metamagic spells to stack. Maybe a max of 1 per spell level, or part of upcasting each one.
Build your own Hunter's Mark.

I e
Base Hunter's Mark (+1d6)
+slowing Mark
+pact tactics Mark

Spend 3 spell slots, get a powerful Mark. And try not to lose concentration.

I think that would also be a great idea, the higher level spells acting less like spells and more like funnelling additional magical power into the hunter's mark that ends up being a "build a bear" hunter's mark spell.