D&D 5E Fixing the Fighter: The Zouave

[Garthanos]

It's not.

Then what makes it pertinent.... your DM letting you use your own social skills for the social and exploration arena instead of your characters abilities doesn't make the imbalance people are complaining about a necessary thing that should not be addressed it just means at your table reading what the DM likes is the skill to invest in.

 

[Tony Vargas]

the vast majority of things that happen outside of combat, at least at the games I play in, is down to the player, not the character.

In or out of combat, the player makes the decisions for the character, but, since 3.0 at the very latest (and as early as the survival guides) D&D has had broader resolution systems for out of combat actions based on the character.
If you don't use those sub-systems, then the resources (from tertiary stats on) that work with them can be 'dumped,' and a class virtually bereft of them may even seem 'fine.'

And, the 5e "play loop" does leave the door wide open to the DM adjudicating success/failure without regard to the character, just the approach the player describes or what he says in character.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So do you have to make a skill roll to walk down the street and chew gum?

Most of what people do they can do without difficulty. They have to decide what to do, but once they have decided actually doing it is just a matter of getting on with it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So do you have to make a skill roll to walk down the street and chew gum?

I was going to say cewing gum would be anachronistic ...but, mastic.

But, I get what you're saying: outside of combat, adventurers don't do anything difficult or dangerous.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

It's not.

But the vast majority of things that happen outside of combat, at least at the games I play in, is down to the player, not the character.

So do you have to make a skill roll to walk down the street and chew gum?

Most of what people do they can do without difficulty. They have to decide what to do, but once they have decided actually doing it is just a matter of getting on with it.

If I'm reading this correctly, you're not disputing that some classes seem to have less mechanical support for the Social and Exploration pillars within the class.
You're just saying that its not relevant to your games because most challenges in those pillars are resolved non-mechanically?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If I'm reading this correctly, you're not disputing that some classes seem to have less mechanical support for the Social and Exploration pillars within the class.
You're just saying that its not relevant to your games because most challenges in those pillars are resolved non-mechanically?

Yup.

Imagine the party come upon a group of orcs blocking the path. The will probably spend 5 or 10 minutes discussing whether or not to try and sneak past them. Then, assuming they do decide to try and sneak there is 30 seconds of dice rolling.

So any mechanical part of the game takes only a tiny fraction of the time, and no one cares who actually rolls the dice since everyone has discussed it.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Yup.

Imagine the party come upon a group of orcs blocking the path. The will probably spend 5 or 10 minutes discussing whether or not to try and sneak past them. Then, assuming they do decide to try and sneak there is 30 seconds of dice rolling.

So any mechanical part of the game takes only a tiny fraction of the time, and no one cares who actually rolls the dice since everyone has discussed it.

But surely in the discussion, as well as the resolution, the fact of whether the Fighter is proficient or otherwise has a way of increasing their chances to sneak past the patrol (such as invisibility or other spells) is relevant?

 

[Tony Vargas]

But surely in the discussion, as well as the resolution, the fact of whether the Fighter is proficient or otherwise has a way of increasing their chances to sneak past the patrol (such as invisibility or other spells) is relevant?

The point isn't that it's not relevant, only that it's trivial, if 90-95% of non-combat is players discussing what to do, and everyone gets to be in on that. The balance might not include the fighter doing anything (successfully), but since his player was in on talking about it, it's OK.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The point isn't that it's not relevant, only that it's trivial, if 90-95% of non-combat is players discussing what to do, and everyone gets to be in on that. The balance might not include the fighter doing anything (successfully), but since his player was in on talking about it, it's OK.

This. The party might spend time discussing how to get an unstealthy fighter past the orcs - "take off your armour" "I paint the fighter with mud as camouflage" (Help action). But the fighter's lack of stealth skill is actually making the encounter more interesting.

 

[Arnwolf666]

This. The party might spend time discussing how to get an unstealthy fighter past the orcs - "take off your armour" "I paint the fighter with mud as camouflage" (Help action). But the fighter's lack of stealth skill is actually making the encounter more interesting.

Group stealth checks work great for this kind of thing. There is a nice section on group skill checks somewhere can’t remember where that I found worked great.