D&D 5E Fixing the Fighter: The Zouave

[Ancalagon]

Group stealth checks work great for this kind of thing. There is a nice section on group skill checks somewhere can’t remember where that I found worked great.

Oh group checks are almost essential IMO for stealth. Otherwise, statistically speaking, the group is almost guaranteed to fail.

 

[Garthanos]

But the fighter's lack of stealth skill is actually making the encounter more interesting.

How often? does incompetence make for interesting story.

 

[Arnwolf666]

How often? does incompetence make for interesting story.

Agree it makes it impossible to run a stealth mission without group skill check. I like it. It’s more like the skilled stealth people coaching and helping the others through.

 

[Tony Vargas]

How often? does incompetence make for interesting story.

"Out Of Combat," was the context.
However often that may be.

In the specific example of a group stealth check, though it's just a very late fix to a broken sub-system. Sneaking past something is a common trope in genre, but the way D&D handled it was untenable, from the early days when Thieves had to roll both hide in shadows and move silently or specific races got a better surprise check, and, either way, only alone, through the contested stealth vs perception checks of 3.5, group stealth was both virtually impossible, and held up as an example of "smart play" - a Group Check vs a DC finally enabled the trope.

Works for a few other things, too. And it's nice that 5e, in its orgy of recidivism, didn't do away with the mechanic, just because 4e introduced it.

But, that's the 30 seconds of resolving some dice rolls, not the 5-10 min of discussion that's the bulk of non-combat play in D&D, so not relevant, as I understand the argument.

Though, this last example sounds more like the fighter /is/ the challenge to be overcome by cooperative play.

 

[Garthanos]

Agree it makes it impossible to run a stealth mission without group skill check. I like it. It’s more like the skilled stealth people coaching and helping the others through.

Give me skill challenges any day where the fighter goes and makes a ruckus taking out a couple of minions someplace away from the main area you are stealthing through then falls back or routes back around and climbs someplace nobody else could do and another party member does stealth, Somebody who exploited the fighters distraction to rush the negotiation on their bluff attempt. (hey you guys need to go look into that)

 

[Arnwolf666]

"Out Of Combat," was the context.
However often that may be.

In the specific example of a group stealth check, though it's just a very late fix to a broken sub-system. Sneaking past something is a common trope in genre, but the way D&D handled it was untenable, from the early days when Thieves had to roll both hide in shadows and move silently or specific races got a better surprise check, and, either way, only alone, through the contested stealth vs perception checks of 3.5, group stealth was both virtually impossible, and held up as an example of "smart play" - a Group Check vs a DC finally enabled the trope.

Works for a few other things, too. And it's nice that 5e, in its orgy of recidivism, didn't do away with the mechanic, just because 4e introduced it.

But, that's the 30 seconds of resolving some dice rolls, not the 5-10 min of discussion that's the bulk of non-combat play in D&D, so not relevant, as I understand the argument.

Though, this last example sounds more like the fighter /is/ the challenge to be overcome by cooperative play.

Every edition did something right. And that’s not an insult to 4E. There are good ideas to mine from everything.

 

[5ekyu]

Give me skill challenges any day where the fighter goes and makes a ruckus taking out a couple of minions someplace away from the main area you are stealthing through then falls back or routes back around and climbs someplace nobody else could do and another party member does stealth, Somebody who exploited the fighters distraction to rush the negotiation on their bluff attempt. (hey you guys need to go look into that)

Wouldn't that in 5e be a case for "working together" for advantage or if it's a social encounter possibly changing the risk level and do changing the DC per DMG?

Sure, its different ways of accounting for the effort helping - making the success chances better vs skill challenge tally up successes. But both systems allow for this kind of thing - just different dice if dice are needed.

 

[Undrave]

I was going to say cewing gum would be anachronistic ...but, mastic.

Chewing gum is only anachronistic if you don't have the trees for it within trading distance! It could be spruce gum for exemple. Or chicle if you live south enough.

 

[Garthanos]

Give me skill challenges any day where the fighter goes and makes a ruckus taking out a couple of minions someplace away from the main area you are stealthing through then falls back or routes back around and climbs someplace nobody else could do and another party member does stealth, Somebody who exploited the fighters distraction to rush the negotiation on their bluff attempt. (hey you guys need to go look into that)

Cannot always do that kind of thing either but it is surprising how many very distinct scenarios can be structured and promoted from crafting something in a duress situation to chase sequences to penetrate the castle defenses.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Cannot always do that kind of thing either but it is surprising how many very distinct scenarios can be structured and promoted from crafting something in a duress situation to chase sequences to penetrate the castle defenses.

D&D sucks at chase sequences and scenarios. I would kill to see good rules for it. Never liked any system proposed in d&d or pathfinder.

but I’m also trying to figure out a cool way to do motorcycle combat