FLGS and DnD?

[ShinHakkaider]

The difference isn't particularly large. It's little different than modifying adventures for a more optimized party than the original expected iconic 4.

Exactly, my group is 5 players and I've had to modify some of the encounters anyway and have STILL lost two PC's during the first two parts of the AP. Would have lost more if not for a *house ruled action point mechanic that I have in place. Without that rule we would have lost at least two more PC's.

*Whenever a PC has been taken down past their negative CON or otherwise is about to definitely die. Each PC at that table can sacrifice an action point to make the wound/effect a little less fatal than initially thought. But it has to be unanimous and it just brings the PC in question to zero. This can only be used once per player though.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think that WotC could have prevented a lot of ill will by marketing 4e as a separate game, while continuing with the 3.X architecture. Call it D&D Essentials to tie it in with the older property, and market the new game as an adjunct or alternative. The market might still have split, but WotC would have controlled both sides of the divide.

The Auld Grump

I've said as much myself...Hasbro would have had to have subsidize it early on, though.

 

[Ahnehnois]

My friends and I still play DnD but when I go to my local game store they don't carry anything dungeons and dragons, except 4th edition which they sell at 1/4th price because they say, "no one ever buys it" and when I do buy it they try to talk me out of handing them my money "are you sure you want that?"

In sales, sometimes you end up with a product you don't like, or one which you think that a prpospective customer is unlikely to buy. On some level, being honest is a virtue, but it still doesn't make sense to trash your own inventory.

First off, if you don't believe in a product, don't bring it in. Second, if you somehow end up with inventory you don't like, get rid of it. Put it on sale, sell it at a special event, or just give it away. Third, sales is about being positive. The owner ought to point people towards products he thinks they might want, not talk about those he doesn't.

I suspect as others have noted, that there is tremendous regional variability in sales and that many 4e customers have gone online, so even people playing the game don't support gaming stores. That said, all you can do as a retailer is advertise well and work with whoever comes in your door.

 

[OpsKT]

On the actual topic-

My UFLGS doesn't really carry D&D or Pathfinder, or RPGs in general. He's a comic and Hero-Clix shop, first and foremost. Then he carries Magic, then Warhammer 40K, then a few copies of D&D 4e, Pathfinder Beginner Box, and some old used stuff that no one wants.

He's pretty much made it clear he doesn't like RPG folks because our hobby doesn't have a built in 'regular purchase mechanic' like Hero-Clix and Magic Cards. In short, we don't buy often enough. I'm pretty sure that Fortune Cards were a direct response to the complaints of retailers like him. Something in D&D that people will buy every week. Except we don't. Cause they suck.

Cards made sense in the random nature of Gamma World, and the box came with all you really needed. The other cards were optional. Fortune Cards are optional and don't make sense.

Oh, but if he doesn't harass me (the only RPGA guy he knows) to keep finding DMs for Encounters for the store. I am on my current 2nd DM to run things there (as I really don't like running ANY version of D&D as a public event, I like to keep things simple in my home games) because no one wants to run stuff there. I only run stuff there when I can't get others to do it because if I don't the few RPG players there would have NOTHING.

However, he doesn't want to make sure that Encounters and Lair Assault is scheduled to run for the gamers, but for his bottom line, cause at the end of each season rather than letting the GM (who did all the damn work) keep the materials, he sells them on e-Bay. He actually had a fit in front of me (like a 12-year old) when he found out that the maps from the Shadowfell season were missing and his auction price would be lower. I'm 35 by the way, and this guy is easily in his mid to late 40's.

I buy less and less stuff there all the time, and if this new DM I got working Encounters works out (he can sanction and report on his own now, so all he has to do is not quit) I'll probably never go there again. I don't want to run D&D (4e or Pathfinder) in public anyway (except Castles and Crusades, which seems to me to be the perfect Con game due to how fast you can make characters and play). My current home games are Savage Worlds: Necessary Evil and Mage: the Awakening, both of which I have more fun with.

As for the edition wars derailment of this thread, I just want to say this, and be done with it.

Does it have dragons? Does it have dungeons? Elves? Magic? The classic fantasy tropes? Dwarves? Humanoid monsters designed to 'be evil' so we don't feel bad killing them much like we de-humanize Nazis in first person shooters? Gods that actually grant powers rather than just deliver vaguely worded holy books and 2000 years of conflict in the Middle East? Do you roll dice of various shapes to play? Is the main die made with 20 sides for most tasks and the others used mostly for damage? Do you have as many settings for the game as there are real nations in the world?

Then it's freaking D&D!!! D&D is like the word Xerox now. It's the term used to describe any form of fantasy gaming both with people in and outside of the hobby. If you play 4e, you're playing D&D. Pathfinder? D&D. Castles and Crusades? D&D. Exalted? Wire-fu D&D. d20 Modern? D&D with guns. Savage Worlds with the Fantasy Companion? Savaged Frakking D&D! BESM d20? Anime freaking D&D!!

It's ALL DUNGEONS & DRAGONS!!!

'Nuff said.

 

[OnlineDM]

[MENTION=98256]kitcik[/MENTION]: As someone who enjoys 4th Edition D&D, I can tell you that I don't like Fortune Cards at all, and we don't use them in my games. I play games at the FLGS, and a few people use Fortune Cards there; most do not.

I see it as an experiment from WotC, one that, based on my limited observations at the FLGS, isn't working out very well for them. I expect that Fortune Cards will die out, and I won't miss them at all.

To be clear, Fortune Cards are the farthest possible thing from a core part of 4e. If Fortune Cards were the only reason a person didn't like 4e, they'd be making a mistake.

 

[Rechan]

@kitcik what [MENTION=90804]OnlineDM[/MENTION] said.

However, I'd also point out that Pathfinder does the card Deck thing too.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

My friends and I still play DnD but when I go to my local game store they don't carry anything dungeons and dragons, except 4th edition which they sell at 1/4th price...

Will they pay for the shipping too? Because I'd like to get my hand on 75% off books.

Exactly! I'll buy my 4E books from them if they offer that sort of discount!!

 

[billd91]

@kitcik what [MENTION=90804]OnlineDM[/MENTION] said.

However, I'd also point out that Pathfinder does the card Deck thing too.

So? We've had cards for D&D for a long time. The question is - what are the cards for? Keeping track of equipment, tracking conditions, or even keeping track of selected spells/powers? I would submit that those are worlds apart from the Fortune cards.

That said, I really don't see having optional add-on rules that incorporate things like Fortune cards, Critical Hit/Fumble cards, or Dork 20 cards really make the game any different.

 

[the Jester]

Although I loathe fortune cards and the like, I have to admit that the Despair Deck from the Gloomwrought supplement is pretty cool in context. Also, many of us were using index cards for special/unique magic items as far back as, well, my first couple of D&D sessions in about '81, so further back than that.

Also, Monster Cards from 1e.

So in one form or another, cards have been in D&D for a long time.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Also, Monster Cards from 1e.

And spell cards after that.