Flying off the shelves!

[Crothian]

Re: Re: Re: Flying off the shelves!

Crothian, you mind if I borrow this for my collection of quotes?

You have a collection of quotes? That's rather cool, and by all means feel free to add any of the drivel that spews from my keyboard to it.

 

[jmucchiello]

It's funny, and maybe it's just ego, but when you've exchanged email and message board conversation with the likes of Gary Gygax, Monte Cook, Bruce Cordell, Sean Reynolds, etc. You remember that they're human too.

It's ego.

Poll the common gamer about that list of people and besides EGG and perhaps Monte they will probably not recognize the names (sorry Bruce & Sean). Even more telling is I'll bet they are unaware that Monte (et.al.) doesn't work for Wizards any more. ("But there, see, they just release his book, Ghostwalk! He must work there.") They probably don't know about the rounds of layoffs either.

ENWorld as a group is far more attuned to the d20 industry than the average gamer on the street.

 

[Emiricol]

Well, here's another perspective in the "online vs FLGS" debate.

My FLGS, the Gauntlet in Modesto, was the most poorly run business I've ever seen. Their selection of anything not Warhammer 40K was pitiful by mall bookstore standards. They said they would order books for people, then several shipments would come in and not include my order. They'd finally get it in, and put my order on the shelf, where it would sell out immediately, despite my every effort to be there ON SHIPMENT DAYS. They had 100s of sq feet dedicated to gaming tables, but BLACK PAINT throughout and lighting that would make a crack house look good.

Eventually, I just figured if my FLGS can't meet my needs in any way - most particularly by providing the goods I wanted to spend my money on - then they didn't deserve my business.

I was joyful when they went out of business, though they came back somewhere after about four months.

Meanwhile, Amazon.com offered me the products I wanted, shipped when they said they would, provided free shipping to fix an order the time I got a defective book, etc.

So my choices: support a game store that has no business being in business and pay full price (which I gladly did for about a year until they got on my last friggin nerve), or go to Amazon and have a pleasant experience, good selection, prompt delivery and the best prices as well.

I'm sure most FLGS are run much better than that lame Gauntlet store was, but I don't even have another FLGS for over 100 miles.

 

[Belen]

Derek,

I am sorry to hear that you think massive discounting a bad thing, but most of us have to get the books at a price that will keep us in food and rent. Other than the trouble with getting to out of the way game stores, I have issues with LGS in general.

When I walk into a store on the weekend, I literally have to trip over the magic tweenies etc who have staked a claim to the store. That makes it quite difficult to actually browse the stacks. And I buy something EVERY time I go to a store. I just do not go to the LGS any more.

Yes, having a games area is great, but if you do not have enough room to keep them out of the way, then it is a BAD idea. I know a lot of people who were RPG curious who decided to turn the other cheek when they encountered the super geeks sitting around the store. There is a reason that the know-it-all, smelly, poorly dressed sob is a stereotype. If we want more sales, then (darn it), a good portion of gamers need to get over their hang-ups and join the world and become somewhat more mainstream.

Finally, why don't you carry some different stuff? Are comics and RPGs the only thing you can carry? Just because you want to run this Gamer Mecca does not mean that you have to cater exclusively to a single crowd. I mean, it makes no sense.

We have one store in my area that is doing WELL and it sells RPG stuff; however, its main sales come from board games, puzzles etc. And they have a back room for people who want to game in store.

The only way a FLGS will survive is to cater to a number of people. If you depend on the Gamer crowd, then you're in for a tough ride.

Dave

 

[JohnNephew]

FLGS make it possible for small press companies to sell their books easily and readily, [...]

So the thing to do is:

Grab the core rulebooks on the cheap on the internet.

With the $30 you save, go to your FLGS and buy some small press products. For example, none of the Atlas Games D20 products are discounted by Amazon -- so you may as well stop in and get them at your FLGS with the money you saved. Indeed, your FLGS should make a higher profit margin on a small press product versus a WotC product, since WotC offers wholesalers lower discounts than the small press guys generally do.

This will help reinforce to the FLGS the value of stocking the small press lines, since that's an area where they have a competitive advantage. The FLGS can't compete with Amazon on price for the bestsellers -- they CAN compete on the basis of selection and availability for the small press stuff, and on the basis of service, helping customers find quality products that they might not have known they wanted to buy. (There's not a lot of extra service to add in getting an existing player to buy a v.3.5 PH or DMG...they're gonna do it anyhow.)

 

[Gallo22]

Well. I have to say that small business do get hurt by such a discount. Small book stores are already saying that with the new Harry Potter book and all the very heavy discounting that is happening associated with its sale that its just not worth it for them to get many copies or run special events to celebrate its release. They just can't compete or make money. Many are saying the only ones to make money on the new Harry Potter book is the writer and publisher.

I personally like the feel of a small mom and pop place to the huge unpersonal monster book store. Its not to say I don't get discounted gaming stuff but I also make sure to buy regualer priced items from the local gaming stores to keep them going as well.

Gallo22

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have seen so many threads and comments against the upcoming 3.5 books, that you can imagine my surprise when I went to Amazon.com and saw the Sales Ranking for the new books:

PH - 58
DMG - 74
MM - 94

To put that in perspective here are some other Sales Rankings:

John Grisham, The King of Torts - 93
The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings box set - 319
Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone - 84

These Sales Rankings are updated constantly I think so don't expect the numbers to be exact but it's still quite surprising.

I wonder how other RPGs rank.

As has been said above, internet communities, even the largest, are not a good sample when it comes to knowing whether a game is doing well or badly, or whether one game will supplant another in popularity Online communities often seem to be separated from reality when it comes to matters like this, where the rhetoric and vitriol are totally belied by actual sales figures. People also seem to hold far more extreme or untenable positions online than they might in real life (in my experience, so I don't presume to say this is true across the board), which greatly contributes to the often diametric difference between general opinions online and general opinions out in the real world.

 

[hunter1828]

I'd gladly buy my stuff at a FLGS if:

1) someone would open one here in town. The closest one to me right now is two hours away. The closest GOOD one is six hours away.

2) the FLGS offered the same discounts as Amazon. It's my money, and danged if I'll pay more somewhere just to support something (small press games) I probably won't ever buy.

hunter1828

 

[Monte At Home]

I would assume that those Amazon ranks will go even lower.

When 3E was released, all three core books got in the top 10. Both the PH and the DMG were, in turn, at number 1. (They were all in the top at once at one point.)

 

[TalonComics]

So the thing to do is:

Grab the core rulebooks on the cheap on the internet.

With the $30 you save, go to your FLGS and buy some small press products. For example, none of the Atlas Games D20 products are discounted by Amazon -- so you may as well stop in and get them at your FLGS with the money you saved. Indeed, your FLGS should make a higher profit margin on a small press product versus a WotC product, since WotC offers wholesalers lower discounts than the small press guys generally do.

This will help reinforce to the FLGS the value of stocking the small press lines, since that's an area where they have a competitive advantage. The FLGS can't compete with Amazon on price for the bestsellers -- they CAN compete on the basis of selection and availability for the small press stuff, and on the basis of service, helping customers find quality products that they might not have known they wanted to buy. (There's not a lot of extra service to add in getting an existing player to buy a v.3.5 PH or DMG...they're gonna do it anyhow.)

This isn't going to happen I'm afraid. As I've said before most make their bread and butter money on the best seller, main stream WotC products. If they're not going to be able to sell those then they don't have the money to pay rent *and* carry smaller press books. Next thing you know the FLGS is gone or is selling Warhammer exclusively.

~D