D&D 5E Forced movement

[brehobit]

(Sorry if this is a repost--first one didn't show up).

Hi all,
Are there any generic rules on forced movement I'm missing? I did see that forced movement generally cannot cause attacks of opportunity. But what happens if forced movement pushes someone over a cliff or into a burning inferno? 4e granted a saving throw to be able to fall prone and not go into that dangerous location. I don't think 5e has such a rule.

So how would you handle the push into the (nearly) bottomless pit? Saving throw of some sort? Chance to hold on? How would it change if they were on the edge and got pushed 5' vs 10'?

 

[Paraxis]

As you noted there is not a rule in the PHB regarding this. So it is left up to the DM, myself for small things like being pushed through a window of a tavern or knocked off a log into a stream I wouldn't bother with a save, for big things like being shoved off a cliff or into lava, I would allow a save like in 4e to stop the forced movement and just end up prone.

 

[GMMichael]

Attack roll. Instead of damage, you get a good push in, with your STR and your opponent's size given consideration.

But will it be in the DMG, or the Tactical Combat module?

 

[Roger]

Are there any generic rules on forced movement I'm missing?

Nope; looks like you've got it all figured out to me.

 

[Tormyr]

You want to look at the Shove action. It replaces one melee attack. It is a contest between the shover's Strength (Athletics) roll and the shovee's Stength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) score. The shovee can be no more than one size larger than the shover. If the shover rolls higher, it can choose between knocking the shovee prone or back 5 feet. With multiattack, it could potentially push the shovee back multiple times. Hello cliff!

 

[Joe Liker]

I never liked the free saving throw that could negate forced movement.

As a player, if you are not willing to risk falling off a cliff, you probably shouldn't fight atop a cliff.

As a DM, if you don't actually want your players' characters falling off a cliff, you probably shouldn't give them a reason to fight atop a cliff.

Having a big epic fight atop a cliff and then letting everyone not get pushed over the edge because it would make them sad ... that's disingenuous and stupid and not epic at all.

 

[Authweight]

I never liked the free saving throw that could negate forced movement.

As a player, if you are not willing to risk falling off a cliff, you probably shouldn't fight atop a cliff.

As a DM, if you don't actually want your players' characters falling off a cliff, you probably shouldn't give them a reason to fight atop a cliff.

Having a big epic fight atop a cliff and then letting everyone not get pushed over the edge because it would make them sad ... that's disingenuous and stupid and not epic at all.

I think that if you're fighting on top of a cliff, there should definitely be a chance to fall off. But making it require nothing more than a single hit to happen makes it very punishing and potentially anti-climactic. I'm imagining a scenario where yakety-sax plays and people are sliding all around and falling to their doom because of a few lucky rolls. Allowing a save to not fall off a cliff makes it still very possible to fall off without it happening so often that fighting on a cliff is basically suicide.

 

[Tormyr]

I think that if you're fighting on top of a cliff, there should definitely be a chance to fall off. But making it require nothing more than a single hit to happen makes it very punishing and potentially anti-climactic. I'm imagining a scenario where yakety-sax plays and people are sliding all around and falling to their doom because of a few lucky rolls. Allowing a save to not fall off a cliff makes it still very possible to fall off without it happening so often that fighting on a cliff is basically suicide.

Is there a particular action or ability you are thinking of for pushing someone off the edge that needs a saving throw?

 

[Authweight]

Is there a particular action or ability you are thinking of for pushing someone off the edge that needs a saving throw?

I was thinking more in terms of 4e really, where everyone and their mother had forced movement abilities, including many monsters as well as PCs.

There's a lot less forced movement in 5e, so it may be less of an issue. The thing that jumps out at me though is the warlock's eldritch spear, with the potential to push people 40 ft in a single turn. It seems a bit ridiculous that a warlock can at-will target people who are twenty feet from a cliff and knock them over it more often than not.

Multi-attacking, combined with shove, also has a lot of potential for making silly things happen near cliffs.

 

[Joe Liker]

There's a lot less forced movement in 5e, so it may be less of an issue. The thing that jumps out at me though is the warlock's eldritch spear, with the potential to push people 40 ft in a single turn. It seems a bit ridiculous that a warlock can at-will target people who are twenty feet from a cliff and knock them over it more often than not.

Multi-attacking, combined with shove, also has a lot of potential for making silly things happen near cliffs.

In the case of Eldritch Spear, the player invested valuable character resources into the ability to push people off of cliffs. What's punitive is when you negate that by allowing his target a saving throw. It's an extremely situational benefit, and you've just taken it away because your monster isn't smart enough to move the fight to a safer spot, but you think it's somehow cheap or anticlimactic to let the players use gravity (and the monster's stupidity) to their advantage.

The yakety-sax scenario is only going to be a thing when the combatants on either side go into such a battle unprepared. If your party prepares spells like feather fall and levitation, and if you do everything in your power to avoid getting near the edge, your chances of not falling increase drastically.

If you don't take those precautions, you deserve every bit of yakety sax you get, with Benny Hill dancing on your grave when you hit bottom.