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Forever Amber?
- Thread starter kookalouris
- Start date
kookalouris
First Post
Actually, the players don't have to be on the same side. The forces capable of reducing the such powerful beings to mundane children (at least temporarily) are hoping the change in ID might lead to a change in loyalties.
Once you reduce your enemy to an infant, is it really easy to hate that baby? It could be that allies and captured enemies were given the same treatment.
And (hint, hint) it may be that your guardians grew to care about their charges, even if that wasn't their initial orders...
Still, I yield to superior knowledge of things Amber.
It has been awhile since I have read the books. It is true that Corwin and Merlin were amongst the best of the bunch. I suppose I am being a little bit unfair to them... 
I guess I am being a little overcautious. The sheer godlike power of the Amber family is munchkin-bait and power-hungry players is something I want to avoid (and so far seem to have, glad to say)...
Once you reduce your enemy to an infant, is it really easy to hate that baby? It could be that allies and captured enemies were given the same treatment.
And (hint, hint) it may be that your guardians grew to care about their charges, even if that wasn't their initial orders...
Still, I yield to superior knowledge of things Amber.
It has been awhile since I have read the books. It is true that Corwin and Merlin were amongst the best of the bunch. I suppose I am being a little bit unfair to them... I guess I am being a little overcautious. The sheer godlike power of the Amber family is munchkin-bait and power-hungry players is something I want to avoid (and so far seem to have, glad to say)...
kookalouris
First Post
I have a few extra moments so let me ask, what mundane shadow do you want your characters to think that they are from?
The requirements are...
As different levels of magic and technology work in different shadows, there is no ONE shadow that would be perfect training grounds for the orphans, so think what sensibilities you wish the orphans to have.
Possible Shadows:
Shadow Earths: The world we know. It is familiar and the Amber Chronicles started out the same way...
Other shadows:
These are only ideas and musings. I heartily encourage any other suggestions and look forward to feedback...
The requirements are...
- The world must be relatively safe, perhaps even dull so that the contrast of discovering the more exciting shadows, especially the canon shadows, will be more wonderous.
- The family should have some knowledge of the medieval/celtic/norse/Shakespearean flavorings that Zelazny used as influences, even if that is not the dominant culture of the shadow that they call home. This will help explain why the characters will feel more at home in Amber (if they do, they might not).
- The various links to other shadows contained within the family homestead must have an 'mundane' explanation as to keep cover. This implies some kind of fantastic museum/library/bookstore location near home.
- The orphans will be quite numerous, home-schooled, and generally kept from feeling too much a part of the mundane world around them (they have a greater destiny, as far as their guardians are concerned, which will be realized earlier than anyone expects). In our modern society, this implies something other than average, middle-class society. The orphans can be aristocracy (which can afford to raise a family as they see fit), an alternative community (which is too different to assimilate with the neighbors) or poor (who simply can't afford to send the kids to school).
As different levels of magic and technology work in different shadows, there is no ONE shadow that would be perfect training grounds for the orphans, so think what sensibilities you wish the orphans to have.
Possible Shadows:
Shadow Earths: The world we know. It is familiar and the Amber Chronicles started out the same way...
- Now, near a major city.
- 1970, New York state, the exact same way Nine Princes of Amber started.
- Victorian Britain, Victorian aristocracy of the British Empire would have similar sensibilities to the Princes of Amber. Also, this evokes the Wonderland riffs in the books.
- Swashbuckling France, similar to New Avalon and the musketeer feel of Amber.
- Elizabethan Britain, There are many Shakespearean references in Zelazny. Such characters would feel at home in Amber.
- Beowulf-era Britain: the norse and celtic mythologies would work well for these folks.
Other shadows:
- Tiers, a world based on Phillip Jose Farmer's World of Tiers, by Zelazny's unashamed admission, the main inspiration for the Chronicles of Amber.
- Ariel, an Elizabethan world where local superstitions and myth are real, especially anything Shakespeare dreamed up. Think 7th Sea.
- Tintagel, A world where the Arthurian myths are real, along with the other legends from the Age of Chivalry. Think Pendragon
- Albion, a steampunk world where Wonderland would seem at home. Think Castle Falkenstein/Space: 1889
- Arcadia, Mythic pre-revolution France, think the mood of Brotherhood of the Wolf.
These are only ideas and musings. I heartily encourage any other suggestions and look forward to feedback...
Nightbreeze
First Post
If I were to give my two cents, I would vote for the real world, or for 1970, with a particular characteristic: there is no fantasy and no sci-fi genre (yes, no tolkien, asimov, arthur clark, and obviously no zelazny). This way, the characters are unaccustomed to such things as parallel worlds and magic and so on, if not at a basic level described by the fairy tales and arthurian tradition. Because we have to admit that if one of us in real life were to be transported in a fantasy world, after the moment of initial shock, he would start analyzing the setting (high/dark fantasy), the magic system and so on...if he had read enough books, he would be hardly surpised by anything. This requirement also makes the world more dull, because there is no escape in fantasy.
So, modern world, with no fantasy/sci-fi for me. Probably a wealthy/aristocratic family which raises the children home, because they feel that the grade school / high school is lacking. I would see the oldest children (those around 17) preparing to take the high school equivalence test, and applying for the elite universities.
Also, perhaps the family instructors are extremely good, but they are very pragmatical: they teach, but they don't inspire. The world, according to them, is rational, and has to be studied like a scientific subject. No inspiration, no great joy, no nothing. Pretty dull childhood.
These are, of course, just ideas. I will adapt to any other suggestion.
So, modern world, with no fantasy/sci-fi for me. Probably a wealthy/aristocratic family which raises the children home, because they feel that the grade school / high school is lacking. I would see the oldest children (those around 17) preparing to take the high school equivalence test, and applying for the elite universities.
Also, perhaps the family instructors are extremely good, but they are very pragmatical: they teach, but they don't inspire. The world, according to them, is rational, and has to be studied like a scientific subject. No inspiration, no great joy, no nothing. Pretty dull childhood.
These are, of course, just ideas. I will adapt to any other suggestion.
Wow, in 2 years I don't think I've seen an amber game get suggested here at ENworld. I played the Amber drpg over almost 2 years, (a decade ago, going from standard starting characters to 800+ point power houses that destroyed both the pattern and the logrus in the end ;p). While I don't have any of the books, I did read them around the time I played last. A cooperative game would be a completely diffent experience that I'd be interested in trying out.
What kind of timeframe were you thinking about for running this? Because while it may be a little interesting to start out as "normals" I'd think it would get dull very quickly, unless the characters' "awakening" was going to happen very early in the game, say within the first 200 posts.
That said I have a concept for one of the older kids, or maybe even one of the younger guardians. A conscript type character that isn't attached to either the pattern or logrus, but is (or will be) a shapeshifting conjurer. He has been either regressed with the others, or is simply hiding among them as another child devoted to defending them.
I think the swashbulcking era would be very cool to place the setting in, where every word a person says matters and a quick tongue or slow mind can get you killed faster than the plague can find you. People today think their words have no weight, and playing in an era where they do could force people to think about what they are going to say.
What kind of timeframe were you thinking about for running this? Because while it may be a little interesting to start out as "normals" I'd think it would get dull very quickly, unless the characters' "awakening" was going to happen very early in the game, say within the first 200 posts.
That said I have a concept for one of the older kids, or maybe even one of the younger guardians. A conscript type character that isn't attached to either the pattern or logrus, but is (or will be) a shapeshifting conjurer. He has been either regressed with the others, or is simply hiding among them as another child devoted to defending them.
I think the swashbulcking era would be very cool to place the setting in, where every word a person says matters and a quick tongue or slow mind can get you killed faster than the plague can find you. People today think their words have no weight, and playing in an era where they do could force people to think about what they are going to say.
Deuce Traveler
Adventurer
For a setting, I like the idea of the player characters starting out in a modern city and era, then somehow getting into a mideval technology-based shadow and finding their talents/powers.
kookalouris
First Post
Thanks for the well thought-out replies. Let me use what time I have tonight to explain a little more.
I have run this game once before, long ago on a board far, far away. Which started out the characters on a world very much like our own and they ended up in a very cool swashbuckling shadow much like Amber so I have a good feeling this time around. I like what I have heard of character ideas so far.
Vertexx, if there hasn't been an Amber game here for a couple of years, then I can say that I will offer the best damn Amber game this board has seen for years (by default)!
Of course, the means I will offer the worst Amber game the board has seen in years (bloody logic and semantics). 
As it turns out, the characters do not necessarily have to start out on the same shadow. For 'insurance' the orphans may have spread out amongst several shadows. But within the first week of posting, I hope to have a way for the shadows to connect and for the scattered family to meet each other. This one event should alone make the characters realize that there is more to the Amberverse and themselves then they ever imagined. If not, one of their pursuers finding them almost immediately afterwards will be a pretty good clue. So the game will start with the discovery and awakening of the characters. The characters will grow evenly throughout the game.
Let me expand upon the premise of the story. These are generalities, the actual character conceptions will dictate the final form of the details.
Here are the major groups that make up the game.
The Victors: Whoever they are, they won a decisive war about a generation ago. They are the vastly stronger power in the game. Their only limitations is that they haven't completely hunted down all of the Rebels and (if they are the kind of pure Evil types fantasy novels are so fond of, have not YET been able to destroy or corrupt Everything That Is, but they are almost there).
The Rebels: The losers in the great war above, about the only thing that can be said for them is that they haven't ALL been hunted down and neutralized yet. They lurk in silent, isolated shadows and brood about claiming (or re-claiming) power.
The Orphans: The 'humanized' PCs and their siblings. The focus of this game.
The Watchers: The guards or guardians of the Oprhans, depending on circumstances.
The Seneschals: The followers and allies that maintained the Homeshadows. The Seneschals were the surprised hosts of both the Orphans and the Watchers when those two groups were suddenly dumped in thier laps and the Homeshadows were obscured and hidden from those trying to find them.
The Homeshadows: These are the shadows where the game begins, either one shadow or a small group (and in the Amberverse, any finite group of shadows is a small group). The Homeshadows were secret bases and hideouts during the recent war. As far as the Seneschals and Watchers know, the location of the Homeshadows and/or the fact that the Orphans are hidden there is still unknown to the enemy.
Up to very recently, that was true. Which will lead to the start of the game...
The above game factors are the plot essentials as I see them. Here are some possible ways the game could use them, depending on player character choices.
Option One: Sympathetic Victors; the Orphans are either 'humanized' captured Rebels or the children of as-yet-uncaptured Rebels. The Victors are keeping them isolated and hidden for the following reasons...
In this option, the Orphans are treated well and loved (at least it seems that way). The Victors don't want the Orphans to realize their full potential (at least not until centuries of guidance and training). Above all, the Orphans would be discouraged from learning any kind of military or political skills, instead encouraged to focus on the Humanities and Arts.
However, the Rebels are small in number but individually very powerful. They will discover the Orphans and try and abduct/rescue them in a lighting raid...
Option Two: Sympathetic Rebels: The Orphans are Rebel children or 'humanized' Rebel Princes (and Princesses) or even captured Victors, reduced to a helpless and trusting adolescent mortality. The Orphans are necessarily kept as unknowing children to keep from the powerful magicks that would reveal an Amber-sized soul to the hunting Victors. The Rebels are keeping the Orphans in this manner so as to keep them alive and able to train for the eventual coup/liberation. As the weaker army, the Rebels can't afford to lose even one child so all of the kids, whatever their true origin, will become child warriors in the Righteous Rebellion.
In this case, the Rebels will teach the kids martial and political skills. This training will barely be begun before at least one homeshadow is discovered by the Victors' forces, forcing those Rebels and Orphans who survive the initial attack to flee across Shadow, ill-prepared, confused and chased.
Between these two options, there are infinite shades of gray. In history, very few armies have been completely wrong or right, savior or tyrant. Most wars are simply to some degree my tribe versus your tribe. Let me know what you think.
Whatever is decided above, here's a little more detail on a local level.
The Homeshadows were originally, first and foremost, minor hidden bases and strongholds. They were spartan, dull shadows, never meant to be the incubators of Amberish royalty. Due to as yet undetermined plot reasons, the Orphans and Watchers were suddenly relocated to the Homeshadows without enough planning or preparation to make the best choice or use of the Homeshadows. Their saving grace is that they are so backwards and far-flung the chances of them being located or even accidentally discovered are considered remote.
The Seneschals were the local staff and army of the Homeshadows, either native converted to the 'cause' or the cause turned 'native.' No Seneschals expected to be saddled with super children and their super nannies. And the Homeshadows were made even more remote so the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals have been stuck on the Homeshadows since their initial exodus to game start.
If the Victors run the Homeshadows, the Orphans are not considered important enough to warrant using a truly useful shadow or Watchers or Seneschals. The decision to keep the Orphans alive was not a popular one and even the supporters of the Orphan 'project' know it is best that the kids are seen and not heard.
If the Rebels run the Homeshadows, then the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals may be all that is left of the movement and the B-list Homeshadow may be all that is available to the revolutionaries.
What does all of this mean? It means that if the Watchers and Seneschals ultimately mean the Orphans ill, there may be something in the Homeshadows that might work in the trapped Orphans favor. The reason for two groups of allies is to allow the Orphans a decent chance at guides, no matter how grim their situation.
The Watchers could be callously using the children as weapons. In which case, the decent forthright warrior Seneschals might be the Orphans true allies. If the Orphans are prisoners, then the Watchers are family retainers and loyal servants pitted against the guarding Seneschal wardens...
All of these factors in play allow me easy customization to the group's wishes. As always, let me know what you think. I value feedback and like Shadow, all of this is subject to your interpretation...
Next up, I hope have a cameo from a character you know of an example of one way to make such a character....
I have run this game once before, long ago on a board far, far away. Which started out the characters on a world very much like our own and they ended up in a very cool swashbuckling shadow much like Amber so I have a good feeling this time around. I like what I have heard of character ideas so far.
Vertexx, if there hasn't been an Amber game here for a couple of years, then I can say that I will offer the best damn Amber game this board has seen for years (by default)!
Of course, the means I will offer the worst Amber game the board has seen in years (bloody logic and semantics). As it turns out, the characters do not necessarily have to start out on the same shadow. For 'insurance' the orphans may have spread out amongst several shadows. But within the first week of posting, I hope to have a way for the shadows to connect and for the scattered family to meet each other. This one event should alone make the characters realize that there is more to the Amberverse and themselves then they ever imagined. If not, one of their pursuers finding them almost immediately afterwards will be a pretty good clue. So the game will start with the discovery and awakening of the characters. The characters will grow evenly throughout the game.
Let me expand upon the premise of the story. These are generalities, the actual character conceptions will dictate the final form of the details.
Here are the major groups that make up the game.
The Victors: Whoever they are, they won a decisive war about a generation ago. They are the vastly stronger power in the game. Their only limitations is that they haven't completely hunted down all of the Rebels and (if they are the kind of pure Evil types fantasy novels are so fond of, have not YET been able to destroy or corrupt Everything That Is, but they are almost there).
The Rebels: The losers in the great war above, about the only thing that can be said for them is that they haven't ALL been hunted down and neutralized yet. They lurk in silent, isolated shadows and brood about claiming (or re-claiming) power.
The Orphans: The 'humanized' PCs and their siblings. The focus of this game.
The Watchers: The guards or guardians of the Oprhans, depending on circumstances.
The Seneschals: The followers and allies that maintained the Homeshadows. The Seneschals were the surprised hosts of both the Orphans and the Watchers when those two groups were suddenly dumped in thier laps and the Homeshadows were obscured and hidden from those trying to find them.
The Homeshadows: These are the shadows where the game begins, either one shadow or a small group (and in the Amberverse, any finite group of shadows is a small group). The Homeshadows were secret bases and hideouts during the recent war. As far as the Seneschals and Watchers know, the location of the Homeshadows and/or the fact that the Orphans are hidden there is still unknown to the enemy.
Up to very recently, that was true. Which will lead to the start of the game...
The above game factors are the plot essentials as I see them. Here are some possible ways the game could use them, depending on player character choices.
Option One: Sympathetic Victors; the Orphans are either 'humanized' captured Rebels or the children of as-yet-uncaptured Rebels. The Victors are keeping them isolated and hidden for the following reasons...
- The Victors are too moral to simply kill the defeated and or innocent.
- The Victors are keeping the Orphans alive as humanized shields and hostages to discourage remaining Rebels from what they would consider terrorist acts of revenge.
- The Victors are using the Orphans as bait.
- The Victors honestly believe that the Orphans can be raised (or re-raised) as 'Victors', rehabilitiated and productive scions in the new Victorious Order.
- The Victors are manipulating the Orphans into becoming trusting tools of the Victors to help lure other Rebels into a trap.
- Any or all of the above...
In this option, the Orphans are treated well and loved (at least it seems that way). The Victors don't want the Orphans to realize their full potential (at least not until centuries of guidance and training). Above all, the Orphans would be discouraged from learning any kind of military or political skills, instead encouraged to focus on the Humanities and Arts.
However, the Rebels are small in number but individually very powerful. They will discover the Orphans and try and abduct/rescue them in a lighting raid...
Option Two: Sympathetic Rebels: The Orphans are Rebel children or 'humanized' Rebel Princes (and Princesses) or even captured Victors, reduced to a helpless and trusting adolescent mortality. The Orphans are necessarily kept as unknowing children to keep from the powerful magicks that would reveal an Amber-sized soul to the hunting Victors. The Rebels are keeping the Orphans in this manner so as to keep them alive and able to train for the eventual coup/liberation. As the weaker army, the Rebels can't afford to lose even one child so all of the kids, whatever their true origin, will become child warriors in the Righteous Rebellion.
In this case, the Rebels will teach the kids martial and political skills. This training will barely be begun before at least one homeshadow is discovered by the Victors' forces, forcing those Rebels and Orphans who survive the initial attack to flee across Shadow, ill-prepared, confused and chased.
Between these two options, there are infinite shades of gray. In history, very few armies have been completely wrong or right, savior or tyrant. Most wars are simply to some degree my tribe versus your tribe. Let me know what you think.
Whatever is decided above, here's a little more detail on a local level.
The Homeshadows were originally, first and foremost, minor hidden bases and strongholds. They were spartan, dull shadows, never meant to be the incubators of Amberish royalty. Due to as yet undetermined plot reasons, the Orphans and Watchers were suddenly relocated to the Homeshadows without enough planning or preparation to make the best choice or use of the Homeshadows. Their saving grace is that they are so backwards and far-flung the chances of them being located or even accidentally discovered are considered remote.
The Seneschals were the local staff and army of the Homeshadows, either native converted to the 'cause' or the cause turned 'native.' No Seneschals expected to be saddled with super children and their super nannies. And the Homeshadows were made even more remote so the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals have been stuck on the Homeshadows since their initial exodus to game start.
If the Victors run the Homeshadows, the Orphans are not considered important enough to warrant using a truly useful shadow or Watchers or Seneschals. The decision to keep the Orphans alive was not a popular one and even the supporters of the Orphan 'project' know it is best that the kids are seen and not heard.
If the Rebels run the Homeshadows, then the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals may be all that is left of the movement and the B-list Homeshadow may be all that is available to the revolutionaries.
What does all of this mean? It means that if the Watchers and Seneschals ultimately mean the Orphans ill, there may be something in the Homeshadows that might work in the trapped Orphans favor. The reason for two groups of allies is to allow the Orphans a decent chance at guides, no matter how grim their situation.
The Watchers could be callously using the children as weapons. In which case, the decent forthright warrior Seneschals might be the Orphans true allies. If the Orphans are prisoners, then the Watchers are family retainers and loyal servants pitted against the guarding Seneschal wardens...
All of these factors in play allow me easy customization to the group's wishes. As always, let me know what you think. I value feedback and like Shadow, all of this is subject to your interpretation...
Next up, I hope have a cameo from a character you know of an example of one way to make such a character....
Nightbreeze
First Post
Hmm....many choices...many options...many gray areas and shadows. Heck, even the ooc thread has an Amber-like style.
Let me digest and chew this for a while (and i will flip a little bit some books, looking for inspiration).
Let me digest and chew this for a while (and i will flip a little bit some books, looking for inspiration).
Deuce Traveler
Adventurer
I'm with Thanee on this one. Option 2 please.
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