Forsaker... worst PrC ever??

[Wippit Guud]

Is wild shape spell-like (no book here).

I sudder to think of a druid/shifter/forsaker... just think of the troll that combines the forsaker bonuses...

 

[DM_Matt]

Here are some explanations...

I have two proposals...the first I am using in my campaign.

1. It is clear that there is a "magical" source for Forsaker's power, but they adamently hate magic, and dont see that they are benefitting from it. Thus, it could be a tenet of their tribe religion. They destroy magical items and slay mages in accordance with the teachings of their god, probably someone who once lived and taught them to hate magic in the first place, and whose teachings have been handed down through the generations. IMC, it is represented by an idol that they worship.

Said deity has his own special reason for these teachings, however. He feeds off the energies of the items and mages that they destroy, and grants them power in return. They dont even necessarily know that this is a being of power, and they do not know the origion of their remarkable abilities. Thus, they only THINK that they are entirely forsaking magic.


2. There are capabilities that humans had in the past that were somehow supressed by the use of magic. By forsaking magic, they can reawaken these latent powers.

 

[FANGO]

Wild shape is indeed spell-like...

..until you hit 6th level shifter

 

[ruleslawyer]

I have two proposals...the first I am using in my campaign. . It is clear that there is a "magical" source for Forsaker's power, but they adamently hate magic, and dont see that they are benefitting from it. Thus, it could be a tenet of their tribe religion. They destroy magical items and slay mages in accordance with the teachings of their god, probably someone who once lived and taught them to hate magic in the first place, and whose teachings have been handed down through the generations. IMC, it is represented by an idol that they worship.

Said deity has his own special reason for these teachings, however. He feeds off the energies of the items and mages that they destroy, and grants them power in return. They dont even necessarily know that this is a being of power, and they do not know the origion of their remarkable abilities. Thus, they only THINK that they are entirely forsaking magic.


2. There are capabilities that humans had in the past that were somehow supressed by the use of magic. By forsaking magic, they can reawaken these latent powers.

There is another possibility as well; that possibility being that all the forsaker's abilities are based on faith. The forsaker has such strong self-reliance, and hates magic so thoroughly, that through his own force of will, he generates heightened strength, magic resistance, and resistance to blows. Sort of like psionics, I guess, but this would be a totally unconscious manipulation of energy. It's similar to the Planescape philosophy that belief is power. By believing a thing is, you make it so. That's the route I've taken with the Forsaker.

 

[ThomasBJJ]

Ok, fair enough. Good fantasy requires some degree of suspension of disbelief. I just feel that the mixture of total avoidance of magic paired with several abilities that can only be explained as magical makes no sense. Some of us work hard to make fantastic things - like magic- make sense in our worlds. This PrC just bugs me.

 

[Immort]

Get this, the Forsaker has to destroy magic items, EVERY DAY to keep his DR. So in essence, to not lose his abilities, he has to HOARD magic items. This guy who hates magic has to be walking around with a freakin backpack full of magical crap just so he can destroy it one per day. Seems to me he is, in a sense, using magic.

Is he over powered? I severly doubt it. A properly magicked up character will probably whip him every time. Is he realistically playable? I guess that is a much more difficult question. Seems like it would take both a talented player AND a capable DM to make it work, but hey, that's what playin is for.

-Immort

 

[Xarlen]

Some things to remember:

Forsakers give up ALL magic. Arcane, Divine, Psionics (Yes, spell like or psionic abilities), Spell-Like Abilities, whatnot.

Given this, a Forsaker could have been a cleric. A druid. A wizard (Why he would, I do not know), a psychic warrior. Thus, the divine faith thing may not work as good (What is a god who disdains magic, that has clerics who he grants magic to?).

However, it is a possibility.

Another thing: It has been propsed to Houserule the Forsaker to 'Store up' his DR. So, he just breaks magical items, and when he NEEDS DR, he dips into a pool. Sort've like the Barbarian's rage, but more deeply rooted. Sort've a reserve of his power. But, perhaps that's a little too much, too magical, for some?

 

[gamecat]

As to my campaign; (i am dm and thus orchestrator of the madness) I play Psionics are diffrent, and one of the principal villans of the campaign is a psion/forsaker... (oh the wreaked havoc!)

 

[Zerovoid]

Another possible reason for the Forsaker's powers?

Contact with magic inevitably drains a character of some of their essence. Most people are willing to trade a little of their innate power for magic, but the Forsaker is not. So, its not that he's gaining anything, by not using magic, he has avoided corrupting his innate potential.

Another idea is that not using magic has simply given the Forsaker a very hard life. He has had to rely on himself while others turned to their magical toys, and the Forsaker has had to develop his own skills to a superior level as a result.

 

[Number47]

What bothers me most about the Forsaker is how impossible it would be to actually use. Imagine it as playing somebody who is very anti-drug, but all of his friends are hard-core druggies. Even for a bad guy, it makes very little sense unless you already run a low-magic world. If you do run a low-magic world, however, the Forsaker gives up magic to gain almost nothing.