[FR] More Archmage High Arcana?

[drnuncheon]

Seems like the Archmage's High Arcana are really focused on boosting your Evocation spells - what with the energy substitution and raising the saves and all. That's all well and good for evokers, but how about a little love for the other specialties? Here's some thoughts I had for Conjurers. Feedback on what spell level slot they should cost would be nice.

Mixed Conjuration - when summoning multiple creatures (for example, using SMV to summon 1d3 creatures from the SMIV list), they need not all be of the same type.

Conjure Horde - when summoning multiple creatures, use the next lower die type but add another +1. (1d3 becomes 1d2+1, 1d4+1 becomes 1d3+2)

They both strike me as a little weak for a High Arcana, though - should I combine them? What do folks think?

J

 

[clark411]

I dunno. I thought High Arcana is good for all schools

Saves are good across the board, as are caster level boosts (dispelling conjured monsters becomes harder)

also, perhaps I'm misinterpreting the Element Mastery, but couldn't you also throw off people by summoning Earth Elementals with Water or Air subtypes perhaps?


A Mastery of Conjuring where you could substitute non summon spells for summon ones of the same level would be interesting.

 

[drnuncheon]

I dunno. I thought High Arcana is good for all schools

Saves are good across the board, as are caster level boosts (dispelling conjured monsters becomes harder)

Save and penetration boosts are mostly good for the spells with saves and SR - evocation, illusion, and enchantment primarily. They do nothing for summons, and the Spell Power high arcana doesn't help vs. dispels, only vs. SR.

also, perhaps I'm misinterpreting the Element Mastery, but couldn't you also throw off people by summoning Earth Elementals with Water or Air subtypes perhaps?

You could alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor to change that descriptor, but I'm not sure that it would have any actual effect on a summoned creature (and the only elemental it would affect would be the fire elemental).

J

 

[Mordane76]

I was toying with the idea of High Arcana for each school...

Mastery of Abjuration:
"Spells you cast from the Abjuration school receive a +4 to their DC when resisting dispel checks, and have their durations by 1/2."

Mastery of Necromancy:
"Damaing spells you cast from Necromancy school have half their damage considered to be raw magical energy, not negative energy, and hence are only partially resistible via Negative Energy Protection and other protections against this form of damage. Spells that would kill instantly instead of simply damage have their DCs increase by +4 due to this change in nature of the energy used. Spells that animate the dead are 1.5 as effective."

Mastery of Conjuration:
"Damaging conjuration spells are considered to be Empowered. Summoning spells have their durations increased by 1.5 times, and the summoner can summon 1 additional creature of the type he has chosen. Spells that create objects/structures last 1.5 times as long."


Just a taste of what I had running around in my head. No playtesting on these, either. I just think there aren't a lot of high arcana, and I've been toying with expanding the Archmage into a 10 level PrC so that it can continue expanding into Epic Levels, but I just haven't been able to figure out something useful to space between the High Arcana.

 

[Kraedin]

I always felt that raising the saving throw DCs was more useful for necromancy/transmutation. The failure or success of a saving throw seems more important to me with flesh to stone or disintigrate than fireball.

 

[Mordane76]

On fireball, I agree, but not necessarily on disintegrate; the penalties for failure on that are far more troubling than with giant balls of fire -- serious singe and burns versus non-existence. The biggest loser in the High Arcana is probably Abjuration; most of the present Arcana don't do much for spells out of that school, OTTOMH, but I don't have the FRCS book with me right now.

DC increases are nice, and I like them a lot, but I think that Archmages should be getting something more original in their options when they reach such a pinnacle. Perhaps a more stylish system of player-created, DM-approved Arcana would be in order. It could be similar to spell-creation -- most of the present arcana give an idea of what spell-level they're equivalent to, so one can develop a High Arcana, try and balance it out for your personal flair and power level, and then pick how much the Arcana costs in spell levels.

 

[Hashmalum]

I disagree with the notion that archmage is primarily for those who make extensive use of evocation spells. Let's go though the high arcana list one-by-one.

Arcane Fire: This ability seems intended to allow the character to go without preparing or even learning direct damage spells (most of which are evocation). Not only can you swap out non-damaging spells for damage, but it's non-elemental damage to boot, so nothing gets energy resistance against it as they would with, say, fireball or lightning bolt. The evoker doesn't need Arcane Fire for non-elemental damage as long as they have a few force spells.

Arcane Reach: Most evocation spells don't have touch range and thus won't benefit from this ability in any way.

Mastery of Counterspelling: The effects of this ability are limited to spells that can be affected by spell turning, which doesn't affect area or effect spells. Most evocations fall into one of those two categories. Because usually one must know or have prepared the spell to be counterspelled, the mage who makes extensive use of evocations will find this ability of limited use.

Mastery of Elements: Clearly a boon to evokers. No arguments here.

Mastery of Shaping: Again, a clearly pro-evocation ability.

Spell Power +1, +2, +3: As another poster pointed out, these are more valuable for non-evocation effects which are completely negated by a successful save, such as the various charm, dominate, and polymorph effects, disintegrate, and so on.

Spell-Like Ability: The ability to use a spell as a spell-like ability (without components) is really most useful for "emergency" spells that a mage might wish to cast when, say, silenced, grappled, or bound and gagged--spells such as dispel magic or dimension door. Most of these aren't evocations.

So to sum things up, we have 2 out of 9 high arcana that are clearly intended for evocation-heavy spellcasters. I'd say that hardly qualifies as "really focused".

 

[Mordane76]

Well... Arcane Fire is incredibly potent; casters aren't picking it up right away because it costs a pretty penny -- most won't even consider grabbing it until 18th-19th level, because it costs a valuable high-level slot. Elements and Shaping aren't as costly, IIRC, and hence easily picked up early. I don't necessarily agree that Archmage is an "Evoker's Club" PrC, but I do agree with adding more High Arcana. I especially agree with expanding the class in the summoning direction -- while not personally my favorite area of spellcasting, it is fairly overlooked in the High Arcana, which isn't really fair. If an Archmage has to have spells in 5 schools, Conjuration is probably going to be one of them, and summoning spells are especially useful at low-mid levels, because they at least supply additional targets to take damage for the caster, and some of the creatures a wizard can summon are damage powerhouses. I don't see why summoning magic isn't aided by a High Arcana of its own.

 

[drnuncheon]

I disagree with the notion that archmage is primarily for those who make extensive use of evocation spells. Let's go though the high arcana list one-by-one.

Arcane Fire: This ability seems intended to allow the character to go without preparing or even learning direct damage spells (most of which are evocation).

Granted. It's also the least attractive of the high arcana to my mind - gives a rather low damage output for the spell you give up.

Arcane Reach: Most evocation spells don't have touch range and thus won't benefit from this ability in any way.

Mastery of Counterspelling: The effects of this ability are limited to spells that can be affected by spell turning, which doesn't affect area or effect spells. Most evocations fall into one of those two categories. Because usually one must know or have prepared the spell to be counterspelled, the mage who makes extensive use of evocations will find this ability of limited use.

Not really keyed to any school to my mind - and an archmage with this and not Improved Counterspell is a fool.

Mastery of Elements: Clearly a boon to evokers. No arguments here.

Mastery of Shaping: Again, a clearly pro-evocation ability.

Spell Power +1, +2, +3: As another poster pointed out, these are more valuable for non-evocation effects which are completely negated by a successful save, such as the various charm, dominate, and polymorph effects, disintegrate, and so on.

The fact that they are valuable to transmuters and enchanters does not diminish their usefulness to evokers.

Spell-Like Ability: The ability to use a spell as a spell-like ability (without components) is really most useful for "emergency" spells that a mage might wish to cast when, say, silenced, grappled, or bound and gagged--spells such as dispel magic or dimension door. Most of these aren't evocations.

It's also nice to never have to prepare it - sort of like an improved spell mastery. Again, this is a big one on personal choice, and doesn't favor any school.

So to sum things up, we have 2 out of 9 high arcana that are clearly intended for evocation-heavy spellcasters. I'd say that hardly qualifies as "really focused".

We have 2 out of 9 that are evocation-focused and 5 more that are just as good for evocation as they are for any other school.

Compared to the other schools - most of which have no high arcana that are focused towards them, and some of which can only make minimal use of the existing arcana (divination comes to mind), I think my assessment is more than fair: Evokers get more from Archmage than other caster types.

Now, back to my original point, before it gets lost in everyone trying to defend the Archmage as it stands:

Anyone got any good ideas for Conjuration-related Arcana?

J

 

[Marshall]

Now, back to my original point, before it gets lost in everyone trying to defend the Archmage as it stands:

Anyone got any good ideas for Conjuration-related Arcana?

J

Quick Summons- You cast all Summon Monster spells as a standard action. 4th level spell slot.