From specialization to diversification: Choice & playing a fighter

[steeldragons]

I think the "right" of it (insofar as opinions can be "right") is...Options.

I would like to see specialization and generalization possible.

I think the best way of doing this might be to go back to proficiencies. Use 1 slot for these weapons, 2 slots for these more rare/complex weapons, double that to "specialize" in any of them. Fighters, obviously, and fighter sub-classes, arguably, would get the most weapon proficiency slots. Sure other classes are proficient in whatever weapons they choose, but specializing or being "as good" with a broader range of weapons is the purview of the Fighter.

Maybe I want to play the spearman or the axeman. Yeah, I'll have another blade or a bow to go with it, but they won't do the damage that my trusty X can.

Maybe I want to be a "swordsman" or 'duelist", unparallelled in the realms for my skill with a longsword or rapier (or khopesh or falchion or broad sword or...).

Maybe I want to be a "master-at-arms" who can pick up a battle axe or a short sword or whip out my crossbow (or a broken chair leg or a serving tray or fireplace poker) and kick butt with any of them.

Options are the key...and giving those choices to the player, imo, is most easily done with minimal muss n' fuss by offering the Fighter (and potentially Fighter sub-classes) the most proficiency slots/points (and the quickest/most gained as they level) to be applied as desired.

Things like Weapon Speeds or Reach and Bonuses/penalties v. certain armors, etc...Special "Feats/Skills/Stances/Themes" can all, as mentioned already, add various optional levels of complexity to the game as desired. And I do believe they ought to be included in the DMG as possibilities. But they shouldn't be necessary for the Fighter to be awesome.

--Steel "Can I 'set' my spear?" Dragons

 

[DEFCON 1]

However it ends up falling out... the biggest issue in the design for creating options for a "Weapon Specialist" and "Weapon Generalist" is that they both be fairly even in power (otherwise everyone will take one option over the other).

Which is going to be difficult design proposition, because you're going to need to create one ability that applies to a single weapon which is good enough to overcome the risk the Specialist takes on that they could lose the ability if a magic weapon appears that isn't what he's specialized in... but also not so overpowered compared to the Generalist option or the rest of the classes. As well as another ability that can apply equally to ALL weapons the Generalist might use and is cool and useful enough to warrant taking it... while again not overpowering all of them compared to the Specialist or other classes.

Here's what I'm thinking: The Generalist's ability should probably be slightly less powerful that the Specialist's, because there's no risk involved for the Generalist. The ability will always be applicable to them, whereas the Specialist does involve the risk in possibly losing the bonus due to using a different weapon for whatever reason. So how about something like this:

Specialists get a +1 bonus to Attack with all weapons from a specific weapon group.

Generalists do not need to confirm critical hits. All criticals automatically confirm.

What you get from this are two very different abilities, both of which do not require any remembering of "fiddly bits". Specialists get that ever-important bonus to Attack rolls (the Holy Grail of abilities) that they get to use all the time while not being so good compared to stuff other classes would get (since it basically mimics the +1 4E Fighters get for 1-handed or 2-handed choice). And Generalists get an easy to understand ability that will only come up occasionally (on a roll of 20), but makes every weapon in his hand a deadly object (since they technically "crit" more often than the Specialist without going REALLY overpowered by like extending crit range to 19-20). And since this ability is fairly unique, you have less "stacking" worries to content with.

To be honest... until the math gets fully fleshed out I have no way of really knowing if "auto-confirming" criticals is actually as good an ability as I think it is (especially compared to the +1 Attack bonus)... but it was definitely one ability I thought of that could be applied across all Weapon Groups for the Generalist without overpowering him.

 

[BobTheNob]

Im simply not a fan of when encounter choices is driven by what you did at last level up. Sure, have some definition at level up which impacts encounter time performance, but I so prefer that player tactics drive success.

This is the issue I have with fighter weapon specialization. It ends up locking your choice of weapons. Previous posts said this is historically accurate, and I agree. But when it comes to creating a fun class to play, pigeon holing character design for historical accuracy is madness. Fun > Real World Accuracy.

I would far prefer a "feat stream" (or something like that) which the fighter can invest into which defines all weapon groups and flavors them up. So you invest into one stream and it offers different bonus's for all weapon groups. So, for instance, invest one feat...
Swords = +1 To Hit
Axes = Improved Crit Damage
Mace = Outside chance of stun
(or some such, just spitballing ideas). So by investing into the one stream, you get ALL the advantages. The restriction isnt in which one you pick at level up, the restriction is that you can only have one weapon in your hand at a given time (or maybe 2, but wow that would make dual weild interesting).

Same applies to the "4 styles" (Sword n Board, TwoHander, dual weapon, 2nd hand free). You could have a single stream of feats which improves ALL of them. Again, the restriction isnt which you pick at level up, its which you are using during the encounter.

This leaves fighters free to invest into skilling up his capabilities at the same time as allowing him to switch modes during encounters rather than locking his options. FAR more what I want a fighter to be able to do.

 

[Riley]

I would far prefer a "feat stream" (or something like that) which the fighter can invest into which defines all weapon groups and flavors them up. So you invest into one stream and it offers different bonus's for all weapon groups. So, for instance, invest one feat...
Swords = +1 To Hit
Axes = Improved Crit Damage
Mace = Outside chance of stun
(or some such, just spitballing ideas).....

Same applies to the "4 styles" (Sword n Board, TwoHander, dual weapon, 2nd hand free). You could have a single stream of feats which improves ALL of them. Again, the restriction isnt which you pick at level up, its which you are using during the encounter.

Your idea also makes me think of another option:

Rather than a single stream 'style feat' vs. 'weapon type feat,' you could also have an overlapping grid of weapon and style feats - with the caveat that there are no feat chains - just a single static feat for each category.

Let's say that an 8th level fighter gets 4 feats. Three different combinations might be:
FTR A feats: swords, two-handed, weapon-and-shield style.
FTR B feats: axes, maces, thrown weapon style.
FTR C feats: 1-handed, swords, ranged weapon style

There could be some limited synergy between certain weapon feats and style feats, but without feat chaining there wouldn't be an overwhelming advantage to just keep doing the same thing with the same weapon under most circumstances.

Of course, these bonuses for weapon and style wouldn't have to be feat-based. If simple enough, they could even be cooked right in to standard use of these weapons and styles.

 

[kitsune9]

As for weapons, I like the choice to be a mechanical one in which the fighter chooses the weapon from what it can do for him. For example, a long spear is a reach weapon, a flail can disarm, a halberd can trip, etc.