Fun end of Evard season

[lostingeneral]

Yeah, but that's not a monster stat block, and PCs are not monsters.

Again, if they have it (most don't, and I'm not sure anything does past MM1) it's in the stat block, as an encounter standard action.

 

[Jarrod]

Oh, hey, that's kinda of interesting. Monsters have healing surges, but not second winds unless specifically mentioned. So first aid does not work on them, but a healing surge-triggering ability would...

 

[fuzzlewump]

[MENTION=55006]jimmifett[/MENTION]

Haha, actually, Dwarven Resilience is the dwarven power that lets you use your second wind. So that particular statblock does in fact mention Second Wind in a 'form.' A DM could use that power and thus be using Second Wind.

But I see your point. It depends on your definition of player character. Is it simply a character played by the people who are not the DM? Or is it a character made using the rules in the books for creating characters and the character builder? One depends on who is playing it, the other is an inherent part of the thing being played.

I think it is inherent, if you gave a player a monster to play, it doesn't become a player character in my opinion, and thus doesn't gain Second Wind (unless the DM explicitly allows it.) A PC is simply that thing that comes out of the character builder, regardless of who is actually using it, in my opinion. It just seems more concise that way. But to each his own.

Oh, and as far as it being in the character builder, I meant in the power cards. Second Wind is listed in the form of a power there, or at least used to be at some point, so if a player handed his power cards to the DM it would be available on that basis. But again, by the rules it comes down to your definition of PC as above.

 

[Incenjucar]

Second Winds and numerous healing surges are one of the major things that separates PCs from NPCs. The ability to keep in fighting instead of just being red-shirted defines them as heroes.

 

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

For anyone interested in a rules citation for this, on page 248 of the rules compendium is this under Second Wind.

Unless otherwise noted in the stat block of a monster or DM-controlled character, this action is available only to adventurers.

 

[jimmifett]

@jimmifett
Haha, actually, Dwarven Resilience is the dwarven power that lets you use your second wind. So that particular statblock does in fact mention Second Wind in a 'form.' A DM could use that power and thus be using Second Wind.

While it does mention Second Wind in dwarven resilience, and perhaps act as a loophole for a DM PC to take a second wind via that power, there is no named 'Second Wind' in the stat block and thus a First Aid action would be unable to trigger it since it names a specific action.

 

[wedgeski]

Nice move, it sounded like it played very well, and that's all that really matters.

But I wouldn't have allowed it. If a monster has a power that allows it to heal itself, it'll be spelled out in the stat block in some way or other.

 

[Scribble]

I would have allowed it.

Monster's have healing surges, and I've never thought of the stat block as the ONLY things monsters can do. It's just their most common tactics.

 

[Rune]

I must spread some XP around before giving any to jimmifett again.

For what it's worth, fuzzlewump is correct as far as RAW goes, but sometimes the Rule of Cool has to triumph.

 

[Oldtimer]

Some people seem to forget that Second Wind not only allows the expenditure of a healing surge, but also gives +2 on all defences until EONT. I think it's entirely unfair to suddenly give the monster access to that power if it wasn't already on its stat block.

Entertaining story and a funny move. But I would never have allowed it to work against the players like that.