Fun to Play, Boring to Read; Forked Thread: The Nature of Change

[Dire Bare]

Forked from: The Nature of Change (or, Understanding Edition Wars)

The games presentation is a lot different. It's a boring read IMO. It may be well balanced but it doesn't seem like the same thing.

I think this is my major problem with 4e. I think the game plays better than 3e (for me, anyways), but I've remained uncomfortable with the new edition. Partly because all of my beautiful 3e options are gone (when I play 4e at least), but I didn't hold that against 3e 6-months after release.

Most of the books are just plain boring to read. I still haven't managed to work my way completely through the Monster Manual, Martial Power, and Adventurer's Vault. And even the PHB is "forced" reading. All crunch, very little fluff.

In the past, I felt that most D&D books (from all prior editions) were fun to read through regardless if you ended up running the module or using the prestige class presented. I have a pretty healthy collection of D&D and d20 books stretching back to BECMI days, and I enjoy just picking them up and going through them again. Perhaps it is partly nostalgia, as many of the 1st edition books aren't terribly fluffy either.

But despite the fact I love the new rules, the new cosmology and "world", and even the graphic layout of the book series, I'm still on the fence between 4e and Pathfinder/3e as my "main" game that I use for my own campaigns.

I seriously wonder, if I keep my subscription to D&DI going, why do I even need to purchase books that are 99% crunch like the Monster Manuals, Adventurer's Vaults, and the Power Source books??? There is more reason to hold onto the DMG, Manual of the Planes, Draconomicon, and Open Grave . . . they have much more fluff (but still, sadly, not enough for me).

WotC . . . if you want to solidly sell me (and, presumbly, those like me) on 4e . . . make the damn books interesting to read, own, and treasure again!!!

 

[Cadfan]

I seriously wonder, if I keep my subscription to D&DI going, why do I even need to purchase books that are 99% crunch like the Monster Manuals, Adventurer's Vaults, and the Power Source books??? There is more reason to hold onto the DMG, Manual of the Planes, Draconomicon, and Open Grave . . . they have much more fluff (but still, sadly, not enough for me).

WotC . . . if you want to solidly sell me (and, presumbly, those like me) on 4e . . . make the damn books interesting to read, own, and treasure again!!!

That's exactly why I have a DDI subscription. So I never have to buy the crunch books.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's almost a crime when a fantasy game lacks imagination, I say.

Though part of the problem is always that books that are interesting to read are harder to reference.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

This is something that WoTC has to walk a fine line with, there are some like you who like fluff with their D&D. There are others like myself would like to keep fluff to a minimum with D&D.

I like 4e books since I find it much easier to just look at the mechanics and run with it and completely ignore the fluff, since it has been reduced. Since well, that is how I run D&D besides for a little inspiration here and there I never use D&D worlds really or even semi-worlds, ala; PoL.

Games like say WoD or Cthulhutech, etc. are ones where the world is something I want to play in (part of the reason one specifically buys those books) so lots of fluff is good with those.

I think, it is one of those things of, whether you view D&D as first-most a toolset game, or a setting game.

As for DDI, well... It depends on whether or not a book has any rule-systems in it, that would be a reason to buy a book. Like the rules for running a vehicle aren't in the Compendium.

 

[nightwyrm]

I think WotC is going with two lines of books in their publications. There's the crunch heavy books geared primarily for players (the Powers, Adventurer Vault, PHBIIs etc.). Players who buy the books mainly want more options for their character, whether it's new powers, items, PP etc. Fluff is wasted in those books because the fluff probably won't fit into their DM's game anyways.

There's the second line with a lot more fluff that's geared primarily for the DM (Draconomicon, Open Grave etc.). They're to help the DM set up adventures and their game world so there's more things in there to inspire the DM.

 

[Agamon]

Yep. Because I'm a DM and have a DDI sub, I haven't bought a crunch book. I have bought the FRCG, the Draconomicon and I'm really looking forward to Open Grave.

3e did have some of the same problems, imo. Books like MIC and SpC were boring to read, too. And I never read any of the MMs, they were too tough to read.

 

[Crothian]

I always felt the 3e books were rather bland from a reading point of view as well. It has been a problem with D&D in general the more I think about it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think I have to agree with Crothian, except I probably wouldn't limit it to D&D.

And its worse - I often even ignore fluff text. I want to get to know the rules when reading a rulebook. Exceptions might be books like Testmanent: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era and Changling: The Lost. And I looked into MotP and Dracomonicom more for the fluff. But Core Rulebooks? I focus on the crunch.

 

[Storminator]

In a post that would make Ryan Dancey weep tears of joy, I don't want narrative and inspiring fluff mucking up my core rules. I want rules.

If I want a game book with narrative and inspiring fluff, I want one devoted to it, perhaps with sidebars on how to make the rules support the fluff.

And if I want really inspiring fluff, I'll read a novel.

PS

 

[Nebulous]

Though part of the problem is always that books that are interesting to read are harder to reference.

Well, the powers section of the PHB almost blinds me when i look at it, and it lacks a page reference to the individual spells or whatever when you need them. It's almost as if they made it deliberately vague so people would shell out for the easily searchable online tool.

So, as far as that goes, the 4e is both uninteresting to read AND hard to reference. It's fun in many ways, but as a gorgeous game book, it's sadly lacking.