"Fun"

[hong]

When you're playing a non-MMORPG, you click on everyone. Why? Because they might have dialog, they might have missions for you, adventures, give hints, etc.

The benefit of p&p is you no longer have to click on everyone (or mouse over them). You can do all that with a Streetwise check (or series of checks), and not bother about talking to each and every individual person in town. Which has absolutely nothing to do with rants about ammunition, time wasting, combat, or the price of peanut butter in China.

 

[GSHamster]

I think the movie analogy is good. Some stuff doesn't really serve a purpose, and should be edited out. Why have a scene with the guards that doesn't serve a purpose?

Now, if the scene does serve a purpose, like establishing the tone of the city, or making the players aware of certain laws, that's something that should be shown. "These aren't the droids you're looking for."

But if it's a completely mundane, "Can we enter the City? The guard looks at you closely. 'Do you have anything to declare?' 'No.' 'Okay, carry on then.'" then it's a waste of time.

Think of your game as a movie, and edit ruthlessly. Don't let your game become a flabby Alexander the Great.

 

[Lizard]

A whole generation of gamers has already grown up that doesn't want to waste time on unfun stuff like talking to guards, exploring dungeon corridors or managing "real" resources. They are called the Playstation Generation. They are not playing D&D. If this language causes them to want to play D&D, more power to such language.

If THAT'S the target market, here is how D&D should be played:

DM narrates 20 minutes of What The PCs Do. The actual players do nothing.

A monster appears! They fight it!

If they lose, they fight it again. And again. And again. Until they beat it.

Then the DM talks for another 20 minutes while the players do nothing.

Then a monster appears...

Repeat ad infinitum.

(I played Final Fantasy X. Can you tell?)

 

[hong]

If they lose, they fight it again. And again. And again. Until they beat it.

This is what raise dead was invented for.

 

[Harr]

So this term "badwrongfun" means what... That you just can't deal with someone or something trying to give you advice on how to run your game? It's just such a horrible and critical event in your life to --read a paragraph on a piece of paper-- that you actually need a made-up word to describe it?

That's actually a little scary, is what it is.

You know those stories that came out a while ago, of how the military in some country or other blocked soldiers who were known to be roleplayers from ever having high-rank positions...? This thread is the reason why.

 

[Rechan]

This is what raise dead was invented for.

Rope trick = save point.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I think the people crying "badwrongfun!" are the ones missing the forest for the trees.

The people at TVTropes (which is supposed to be a tool for aspiring writers, even though its way too much fun to be just that), call it "The Law of Conservation of Detail"

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfConservationOfDetail

Also see: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun

In short: If its meaningful to the story for the characters to have a conversation with the guards at the city gate, by all means describe the gate and the guards in some detail. The players will get the hint and act accordingly.

If they don´t need to speak to the guards, please cut to the next important scene!

 

[Rechan]

So this term "badwrongfun" means what... That you just can't deal with someone or something trying to give you advice on how to run your game? It's just such a horrible and critical event in your life to --read a paragraph on a piece of paper-- that you actually need a made-up word to describe it?

Other way around. "Badwrongfun" is a term for a type of play which you personally do not approve of. Therefore, it is bad, wrong, and the wrong kind of fun to be had.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Other way around. "Badwrongfun" is a term for a type of play which you personally do not approve of. Therefore, it is bad, wrong, and the wrong kind of fun to be had.

It's you who have it wrong chuckles.

"Badwrongfun" is a way of labeling an argument some one is making and invalidating it.

A: D&D needs encumberance. It's not a real game without it.
B: Encumberance sucks, I never use it.
A: Then you're not playing D&D.
B:: "Badwrongfun!"

 

[Ydars]

Look; does this discussion HAVE to be so heated!

I agree that many people HATE the scenes where nothing "happens". Novels and films/TV and games are based on these principles nowadays. I also agree that many people love these same elements. It is true that the comments in the DMG can be ignored, but it is also valid to ask WHY is our beloved game taking this direction. Some respect would therefore not go amiss.

I may be getting old, but I remember when films, TV and books actually WERE something; not just a series of meaningless action scenes. They told a STORY that was not defined by someone else's vision of what should and should not be covered. I can think of films where the whole thing was dialog and yet the film was utterly capitvating. Furthermore, they moved at human pace, not a machine pace, where you become very excited but there is no space left for your humanity.

So action may be "fun" for many people, it may be fast and full of thrills and spills, but I ask you honestly; at the end, what does it really all mean? The real purpose of stories was once, not just to entertain, but to convey meaning, and values about the world. A good story satisfies the soul as well as getting the heart pumping. I feel a DM has a role in creating this "soul" and the new edition is cutting the heart out of this, though I personally don't think that D&D was EVER that friendly to roleplaying.

It is sad, but more a reflection of the way our world is going, than any fault of the D&D designers............