D&D 5E Further Future D&D Product Speculation

Mercurius

Legend
One thought that keeps nudging at the back of my mind--and I was reminded of when, I think, Ruin Explorer said "let's kill Kalak again!"--is that some of these settings have been largely untouched for decades. I mean, even 4E Dark Sun was 12 years ago, and 2E Dark Sun was first published 31 years ago (and only had a six-year run). So with Dark Sun, we have a setting that was published for a bit over a half-decade 25-30 years ago, then briefly resuscitated 12 years ago.

Now on the other hand, consider that the vast majority of the current player base is under 30 years old and also--and more importantly--never played D&D before 5E. Meaning, I'm fairly certain that 80-90% of current D&D players have never killed Kalak - and it may be more like 95%. Meaning, killing Kalak would be a new and potentially novel experience for most.

Now let's think of "Killing Kalak" as a proverb. In other words, as a general principle for something that older folks--be they grognards or quasi-grognards--have done, but younger folks (newish players) likely haven't.

Let's also consider that if you're reading this, you're part of a demographic that doesn't at all much up with the current D&D player base. I realize that there are many under-30-somethings on this forum, but this forum skews much older, on average, than the total D&D demographic.

I realize I'm not saying anything new, just that I think we could all (myself included) use a regular reminder, especially when it comes to WotC "re-hashing" old material, or re-working it in a way that we grogs and quasi-grogs don't remember as being the "right way."

This is not to say that newer is always better. There are many film re-makes, for instance, that are far worse than the original (I'm thinking of you, Jacob's Ladder). Even within D&D, most Realms fans prefer the gray box or FRCS to the 4E version.

But my point is that, for most, a 2023 Dark Sun (for instance) wouldn't as much be a remake as a first exposure, and while we older folks might gnash our teeth at them doing it wrong, we might just reduce our own misery by accepting that, well, time moves on.

Oh, and a p.s. to @Ruin Explorer, just to clarify: I'm making no assumption about what your thoughts are on "killing Kalak" other than what you said. The phrase just inspired this line of thinking.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
What if the non-Arab was a cultural consultant, or at least was well-educated and/or did a ton of research?

I understand the impulse - to represent a culture as authentically as possible, and to diminish stereotypes and pejorative depictions as much as possible. But I don't think we should equate one's ethnicity with the ability to write about history, legends and mythology.

And we're never going to entirely avoid bias or "fantastification" - especially when dealing with folklore, myths and legends. I mean, our entire understanding of history is biased. I think the key is just to be aware of stereotyping and negative depiction, and diminish that as much as possible.

I don't really want to get into hypotheticals, as Jeff Grubb is not a cultural consultant, and does not AFAIK have any degrees showing expertise in the Near/Middle East.

I would say it is in good form to get cultural consultants and experts advisors... who are actually members of the community being adapted?
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
It's got a racist order of monks that some might cringe at but handled intelligently and as villains,
So this could just be updated for inclusiveness

like in every other setting they've got, it's a non-issue because TTRPG players are more mature than people want to act like they are.
I dunno about that; one of my gamer friends likes to say "buttsbuttsbutts" a lot.
 

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
One thought that keeps nudging at the back of my mind--and I was reminded of when, I think, Ruin Explorer said "let's kill Kalak again!"--is that some of these settings have been largely untouched for decades. I mean, even 4E Dark Sun was 12 years ago, and 2E Dark Sun was first published 31 years ago (and only had a six-year run). So with Dark Sun, we have a setting that was published for a bit over a half-decade 25-30 years ago, then briefly resuscitated 12 years ago.

Now on the other hand, consider that the vast majority of the current player base is under 30 years old and also--and more importantly--never played D&D before 5E. Meaning, I'm fairly certain that 80-90% of current D&D players have never killed Kalak - and it may be more like 95%. Meaning, killing Kalak would be a new and potentially novel experience for most.

Now let's think of "Killing Kalak" as a proverb. In other words, as a general principle for something that older folks--be they grognards or quasi-grognards--have done, but younger folks (newish players) likely haven't.

Let's also consider that if you're reading this, you're part of a demographic that doesn't at all much up with the current D&D player base. I realize that there are many under-30-somethings on this forum, but this forum skews much older, on average, than the total D&D demographic.

I realize I'm not saying anything new, just that I think we could all (myself included) use a regular reminder, especially when it comes to WotC "re-hashing" old material, or re-working it in a way that we grogs and quasi-grogs don't remember as being the "right way."

This is not to say that newer is always better. There are many film re-makes, for instance, that are far worse than the original (I'm thinking of you, Jacob's Ladder). Even within D&D, most Realms fans prefer the gray box or FRCS to the 4E version.

But my point is that, for most, a 2023 Dark Sun (for instance) wouldn't as much be a remake as a first exposure, and while we older folks might gnash our teeth at them doing it wrong, we might just reduce our own misery by accepting that, well, time moves on.

Oh, and a p.s. to @Ruin Explorer, just to clarify: I'm making no assumption about what your thoughts are on "killing Kalak" other than what you said. The phrase just inspired this line of thinking.

I believe Dark Sun 4E slightly advances the timeline to be post-Kalak's death, but barely beyond that.
 


teitan

Legend
Well, the central information we know is that there is 1 Classic Setting new to 5E in 2023, and one Classic Setting not new to 5E in 2024. That leaves 2023 open to a few possibilities, but limits the 2024 product to the Forgotten Reams, Greyhawk, or Eberron.
Well I doubt Eberron unless it’s an adventure but they said setting but after Strixhaven who knows what that means.
 


teitan

Legend
Sure, and the sorcerer-kings are still terrible and need to be overthrown even if WotC changes the legal status of the subsistence farmers around the city.
Agreed. Not tracking on your response equating my comment to saying it has to have slavery.
 


Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
A few months afterwards, yea.

I have a few problems with 4E Dark Sun, but that's not one of them.

They gotta bring back real half-giants though, not goliaths. I still can't stand that they did that.

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