Game Breaker Spells - What are they?

[Olaf the Stout]

Knock makes ranks in Open Lock worthless for Rogues. Heck, a 3rd level Wizard with the Knock spell can even open a DC 100 lock made by the god of locks himself!

Having said that, I don't know how game breaking the spell is. If the entire adventure revolves around the Rogue making a lock check then it doesn't sound like a very good adventure to me.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Plane Sailing]

I really, REALLY hope they don't take this aproach with transformation spells. A Transmutation school spell that turns you to stone or into an animal or whatever should abso-fraggin-lutely NOT do HP damage. It should simply transform you if you fail the save.

Did you notice the reference someone made to 'Call of Stone' higher up in the thread though? That is a really neat example of a transformation spell which gradually does Dex damage and may eventually turn you to stone.

How would you feel if 'save or lose in an instant' spells became 'save or lose in a couple of rounds unless someone takes appropriate action' spells? I think the latter makes for more interesting situations and more drama during combats; I'd like to see some kind of variation on that myself.

 

[Slife]

Wish: Controversial due to the fact the DM can screw you over no matter what you wish for, but given that you can wish for pretty much anything talented (read: tricky) players can make a simple-sounding wish that lets them break the game afterwards.

RAW-wise, as long as you don't go beyond the description the DM can't screw with you.

 

[Merlion]

Did you notice the reference someone made to 'Call of Stone' higher up in the thread though? That is a really neat example of a transformation spell which gradually does Dex damage and may eventually turn you to stone.
.

I have no problem with that. To me the Dex "damage" simply represents a slow transformation to mineral matter.

How would you feel if 'save or lose in an instant' spells became 'save or lose in a couple of rounds unless someone takes appropriate action' spells? I think the latter makes for more interesting situations and more drama during combats; I'd like to see some kind of variation on that myself.

I would enjoy spells like that. My personal jury is out about wether I'd want save or dies to go away entirely or be entirely redone, or wether I even necessarily care.

my biggest personal issue with save or dies is more the issue that at mid and high levels they more or less obscure other forms of magical offense in effectiveness. But, this could be solved by increasing the usefulness of, for instance, direct damage spells, as well as by reducing save or dies.

 

[Slife]

Oh, yeah. Ice Assassin is the most broken spell of the lot.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Glitterdust...it ignores SR, and because it's a Will save, can blind creatures without eyes. Also lasts way too long.

Grease: Incredibly useful, but has a way of making fights comic instead of dramatic.

Forcecage/Wall of Force/Solid Fog: Spells like this alter the battlefield into a mage vs. mage proposition, as magic is required to overcome their effects.

On the flip side, I want to see some good sleep spells, as sleep is the poster-child of a good Enchantment spell -- it causes an immediate effect, but can have its effects negated by non-magical means (ie. a buddy shaking you awake -- provided they give up a turn to do so).

 

[Greg K]

Did you notice the reference someone made to 'Call of Stone' higher up in the thread though? That is a really neat example of a transformation spell which gradually does Dex damage and may eventually turn you to stone.

I don't find it neat.

How would you feel if 'save or lose in an instant' spells became 'save or lose in a couple of rounds unless someone takes appropriate action' spells? I think the latter makes for more interesting situations and more drama during combats; I'd like to see some kind of variation on that myself.

If handled as a staged affect by how much the target misses the save and continues to get worse each round, I would like it. That way, really blowing the save will take character out, but missing by a little still has some effect.

 

[Destil]

More than one issue

One thing we're dealing with here is that there are really several types of ways to Break The Game:

Combat Breaking

Save or (die, screw whatever). Ignores HP defenses, leaves the wielder as a lone maverick working for different goals than the rest of the party (HP reduction). Sucks if a PC is hit with it for a long encounter.

Adventure Breaking

Find the Path, Discern Location et cetera - There's a reason it's called "Ruin the Adventure" by some.

Teleport - The problem is the strength of the trio of Buff / Scry / Teleport (I still can't believe some DMs allow a surprise round if you teleport into someone's presence unaware). I'd personally be fine if teleport just left you as crap in combat for a min or so afterward...

World Breaking

Raise Dead - Need I say more?

 

[Victim]

Did you notice the reference someone made to 'Call of Stone' higher up in the thread though? That is a really neat example of a transformation spell which gradually does Dex damage and may eventually turn you to stone.

How would you feel if 'save or lose in an instant' spells became 'save or lose in a couple of rounds unless someone takes appropriate action' spells? I think the latter makes for more interesting situations and more drama during combats; I'd like to see some kind of variation on that myself.

Sure, those spells are great. If the environment supports them. But if the battle is going to last say ~4 rounds, then spells that a few rounds to become effective are dicey. Casting something had better make a significant impact right away - perhaps if not on the caster's action, then on the rest of his team's turns. The threat of say Call of Stone is much greater if the battle is going to last 10 rounds.

Thus far, I'm not seeing anything that reduces per action weight so gradual kill spells won't generally be worthwhile.

 

[Merlion]

Now as far as "game breakers"...well that first depends on your definition. I can think of a number of types of spells that might create problems, even large problems of various types, but I'd hesitate to call any of them "game breaking."

First you have your just big/weird/overpowered spells. Wish is the biggy for me. I've always found the idea of a "Wish" spell to be a little silly. Yes I know, "my will be done", foundation of the purpose of magic etc. Magic is about making what you want happen, but usually in more specific ways. To me a "wish" is something you get from a genie or other creature, or an item or the like. Personally I hope it goes away in 4e, and given that it looks like there might be more than 9 levels of spells, it seems possible.

I've also heard a lot said about Time Stop, but I have no real personal experience with it, and it doesnt look inherently broken to me.

Shapeshift is weird, because shapeshifting as a whole is a big problem spot. Trying to get it right conceptually and balanced mechanically is rough.


The next type would be those that toy with the assumptions of life...mostly travel spells and divinations. These are the same things that give one fits when writing fantasy fiction. Fly to me presents the biggest issue, since its a duel thing. There is both the obstacle-avoidance issue and the speed issue. In Arcana Evolved, the basic fly spell makes you fly, but it doesnt make you faster...so its basically a tactical spell that doesnt work for travel. The Heightened version however is much faster...and the Diminished version increases the fly speed of someone who's already flying.

Teleport isnt that big a deal to me. First, you have to know where your going, so its no help if your looking for someone or something and you dont know where it is etc (at least not on its own). And its subject to interference from spells and local conditions.

I feel much the same about Scry. As has been mentioned there are ways around truth spells and lie detecting spells, both magical and mundane.

Find the Path is a bit much, and could probably be toned down...or require some pretty hefty cost or conditions to use.

There are a lot of spells that could use tweaking, but not much I'd call "game breaking"