Game of Thrones 3.9 "The Rains of Castamere" (spoiler alert)

[jonesy]

I am not sure he made any strategic mistakes.

Are you kidding? He spent his entire campaign going up and down and left and right the Riverlands. He spent all the energy his army had accomplishing nothing. The best he ever did was capturing Jaime in a feint that cost him 2000 men. He should have gone straight for Casterly Rock or straight at Kings Landing with either Stannis or Renly (and he messed that up by accepting the King in the North title).

 

[NewJeffCT]

Are you kidding? He spent his entire campaign going up and down and left and right the Riverlands. He spent all the energy his army had accomplishing nothing. The best he ever did was capturing Jaime in a feint that cost him 2000 men. He should have gone straight for Casterly Rock or straight at Kings Landing with either Stannis or Renly (and he messed that up by accepting the King in the North title).

He should have joined with Renly, but Robb would not accept that Renly had claim over Stannis, since Renly was the younger brother. That was probably his big mistake - the Northmen, combined with the men of the Riverlands and Highgarden would have been way too much for the Lannisters. With so many against the Lannisters, the Vale and Dorne may have joined against them as well.

 

[Herschel]

But it wasn't even his plan. This is all Tywin.
And I still like him. He's smart and cunning. Also absolutely cold-blooded. Sure, this was a terrible thing to do, but it might still beat several more years of war and bloodshed. Too bad Joffrey is king, not Tywin.

Yep, that was teh point. Joffrey isn't considered teh slimiest character at the moment.

Also, I think the Rain of Castamere works a lot better the way it was. It is deliberely soul-crushing. You might have hoped that Arya could free the Wolf and have it at least kill some people in revenge. Same thing with Robb getting to fight back. The defeat is so complete, so final, it really hurts. There is no hope here to be had, nothing to say "but he at least gave them a good fight".

It was really dumb. If the defeat were to be that total, Robb never should have been able to get to his feet, move a bit, maybe grab a sandwich then stand there and dialog. If he only makes it to his knees, that's total defeat. It was handled poorly. It went from tragically heroic to going out like a biznitch.

 

[billd91]

He should have joined with Renly, but Robb would not accept that Renly had claim over Stannis, since Renly was the younger brother. That was probably his big mistake - the Northmen, combined with the men of the Riverlands and Highgarden would have been way too much for the Lannisters. With so many against the Lannisters, the Vale and Dorne may have joined against them as well.

I doubt that would ever have been in the offing even if Robb had allied with Renly. A central crux of the stories is that with the death of King Robert Baratheon, the dissolution of the Seven Kingdoms is accelerating. The Targaryens held things together for generations via the right of conquest and hereditary legitimacy. Robert did so by being the legitimate focal point of the coalition that turfed out the degenerating Targaryens with enough authority that Targaryen loyalists saw the writing on the wall and took the knee. Then, relatively suddenly, they're faced with a dynastic succession conflict between Stannis the legitimate but largely unlikable and Joffrey the bastard backed by highly competent Lannister deviousness and money. And there are excesses of armed men in all camps (rather like the War of the Roses era). That's a recipe for a big war and parochial interests if ever I saw one.

 

[billd91]

Yep, that was teh point. Joffrey isn't considered teh slimiest character at the moment.

He's not. And as those of you who haven't read the books should be learning, he never was the slimiest character. There's much worse out there, although given another 20 years, Joffrey might learn enough to become the slimiest character...

 

[jonesy]

Oh my head, I'm laughing so hard I can't even. George made one update to his Not A Blog, and it was to promote a new book he has written. The title of the book? The Elephant in the Room. And does he talk about the latest Game of Thrones episode in the update? Of course not.

 

[Raunalyn]

He should have joined with Renly, but Robb would not accept that Renly had claim over Stannis, since Renly was the younger brother. That was probably his big mistake - the Northmen, combined with the men of the Riverlands and Highgarden would have been way too much for the Lannisters. With so many against the Lannisters, the Vale and Dorne may have joined against them as well.

He tried. He sent Catelyn down to meet with Renly so that he could gain an alliance. And, in the midst of negotiations, Renly was killed by Shadow-Stannis.

 

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

All of this because Bran didn't listen to his mother.

They all deserve to die. Petty, stupid and vein... they are all wretched.

That said, the war would have happened anyway sooner or later. The Incest-Is-The-Best Twins would have killed King Robert sooner or later, triggering a succession war which would have roped in the North. Even if Bran had not climbed that tower that day most of what happens would have happened anyway in some manner. Had, say Ned not become the Hand and then been captured in the inevitable war - much as was Jamie - then Joffery would still have had him beheaded, against advice of everyone who is not a . Greyjoy would still have sacked Winterfell when the Starks were not home, because he know which mat they put the spare key under, and Jon would still have gone to the Wall and those events beyond the wall are not (much) influenced by the War of Five Kings in any case. Robb still thinks with his cock and so marries the wrong woman, which still gets everyone killed.

It is not all down to Bran being a bad boy, though he is, but if you are going to be that reductionist you might as well go back to the death of Tyrion's mother. Has she lived the twins probably would never have gotten into incest, among other issues.

I hope all the Starks die before the end, including the little children. But then I hope that of the youngest Lannister's as well. I also hope most of the incidental and secondary characters die. Like the people standing around silently in the background. I hope they die.

I do like the series more than the books, but then I dislike the books because it takes forever for George Double-R to get to the point.

 

[jonesy]

He tried. He sent Catelyn down to meet with Renly so that he could gain an alliance. And, in the midst of negotiations, Renly was killed by Shadow-Stannis.

If Robb hadn't taken the King in the North title and had instead been proactive (yeah right, Robb proactive, that'll be the day) and sent either of the Baratheon brothers a message straight away saying that the North is going to throw its support to their cause the Renly death wouldn't have happened. If he'd been on the side of Renly they could have moved against either Casterly Rock or Kings Landing straight away without delay, with no time for Melisandre to react. Alternatively if he'd been on the side of Stannis after Renly died they could have taken anything together. Stannis in charge with Robb on his vanguard would have been magnificent.

 

[Herschel]

So you're saying the series should end by a comet destroying the planet.

That would almost be appropriate.