GAME OF THRONES SEASON 8--Final Run-- Part 5

MarkB

Hero
I'm sure you do not find murder and killing to be immoral. This is how we get wars, terrorism, torture, police abuse, etc. People find human death and suffering acceptable when its not them who are affected by it.
Bear in mind that this is a work of fiction. It's not just us who aren't the ones getting murdered - literally nobody is.
 

hawkeyefan

Explorer
Even this (bolded section) can be subjective - one can but refer to the plethora of online arguments regarding the Dragon Queen and her descent into Madness.
Oh it's all certainly subjective. Each of us will have our own way of viewing it. I think for me, something ringing false would be more about the content. It would have to seem more contradictory than someone hitting a dragon with ballistae one day, and then missing the next, when different conditions apply in each case. As I said, I think the first scene could have been constructed a bit more clearly. But to me, the issue is in the presentation more than the content.


This might help explain why I still watch it. Particularly the quote from Jester David.
Okay. I don't think I tend to view things that way. I mean, I like all kinds of things, and consider myself a fan of them. But I don't know if I identify with them so strongly that it messes with my perception of who I am if I don't like something. That seems bizarre to me.

As a comic fan I've suffered through my fair share of awful stories out of some sense of loyalty to the characters or whatever.....and I long ago learned that it's not worth it. There is too much other stuff to enjoy and ways to spend time to waste on stuff I don't actually enjoy.

I suppose in this case, given how close it is to the end, I can kind of understand people watching despite not enjoying, but it still seems odd.


Well they could have reduced or altogether eliminated Euron/Cersei, Arya stumbling around KL, Euron/Jaime, Tyrion/Varis cock jokes and a few other scenes to actually assist with the main storyline...
Maybe. I actually like a lot of the personal stuff and character interactions just as much as the plot stuff, to be honest. That's the stuff that gives the action scenes context. Episode 2 of this season being a good example.....it was nothing but character stuff, and it was great.

Hmmm doesn't that happen everywhere (i.e. politics comes to mind) and why can you not have both - valid criticism with insult.
I'm sure it does.

Wouldn't it be better if it didn't?
 

Sadras

Explorer
I'm sure you do not find murder and killing to be immoral. This is how we get wars, terrorism, torture, police abuse, etc. People find human death and suffering acceptable when its not them who are affected by it.
That is a bit of a stretch but ok exaggeration is your game.
 

Sadras

Explorer
Oh it's all certainly subjective. Each of us will have our own way of viewing it. I think for me, something ringing false would be more about the content. It would have to seem more contradictory than someone hitting a dragon with ballistae one day, and then missing the next, when different conditions apply in each case. As I said, I think the first scene could have been constructed a bit more clearly. But to me, the issue is in the presentation more than the content.
It isn't bad CGI or poorly depicted props - they introduced content, i.e. the scorpion with its deadly accuracy, range and force and how quickly they are able to load. But anyways I doubt we will change each other's minds on this.

Okay. I don't think I tend to view things that way. I mean, I like all kinds of things, and consider myself a fan of them. But I don't know if I identify with them so strongly that it messes with my perception of who I am if I don't like something. That seems bizarre to me.
It is more about we have invested much time and effort in the show, the setting and the mythos - so we want to like it. But that doesn't mean we won't call out bull**** when we see it. The showrunners don't just get a free pass.

Maybe. I actually like a lot of the personal stuff and character interactions just as much as the plot stuff, to be honest. That's the stuff that gives the action scenes context. Episode 2 of this season being a good example.....it was nothing but character stuff, and it was great.
I very much telegraphed specific scenes in my post with specific characters (Euron) or silly D&D jokes. Those are nothing like the personal stuff of old.


I'm sure it does.

Wouldn't it be better if it didn't?
Sure, etiquette is always better, but you also need to understand that ppl feel aggrieved at the way D&D have handled the source material/storyline given their investment (monetary, time and otherwise). Epithets are bound to occur. I'm wondering if this reservation from you exists in other areas (sport, politics...etc) because I find it very strange to get all defensive about some silly name-calling of the showrunners, presumably people you have never met or have any personal connection with.
 
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Zardnaar

Hero
Can't blame any of the actors they did their jobs and mostly did it well.

Started watching season one and yeah it went downhill a bit but was still good. It's disappointment, feels like Phantom Menace 2.0.

They took one of the greatest shows ever and dropped the ball on it.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I'm talking about the audience of the show. They cheered when Dany killed people. They cheered mass murder and torture by a despote. It should be a lesson. Despotes are poopie. We should condamn them. The same people who cheered when Dany commited mass murder on Essos are now shocked she commits mass murder on Westeros. Shame on them for their double standards and their support of murderous despotes. I hope they learn something.

We should stop cheering at characters who serve murder as a form of justice. Murderers are bad people.
Nobody cheered mass murder(at least not pertaining to Game of Thrones). It's a show. It's all pretend. And nobody should be condemned for cheering something pretend on TV.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Nobody cheered mass murder(at least not pertaining to Game of Thrones). It's a show. It's all pretend. And nobody should be condemned for cheering something pretend on TV.
When I watch Jaws, I root for the shark.

COME AT ME!
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Your Euron dis posts are on fire!
Am I praising him, or insulting him?

I don't even know any more!!!!!!

What I do know about Euron "Night at the Roxbury" Greyjoy is that I still remember his shining moment-

Well, it sure was nice to meet you... Jamie.

You've got a little crush on your sister, don't you Jamie? Well, that's gonna make this hard to hear. See, later I'm gonna take little Cersei back to my ship. Show her the bridge, Rhaegal's skull, maybe even the Scorpion.

You think Cersei likes me now? I'm going to give your sister the night of her life, just because you want her. And I get what you want. You see, Queen Cersei is giving it up, she's giving it up hard. 'Cause she's with Captain Euron "Dragon Killer" Scorpion.

And this sword that's about to kill you, Jamie? That's not the scorpion.

The scorpion is my peni......

 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
Well, Dumb & Dumber brought that on themselves. HBO wanted Season 8 to have more episodes, but Dumb & Dumber refused.
This is a common claim I see, but who is better qualified how much story they have to tell than the ones that write the story?
If they said they had something for 6 episodes, why would you assume that if they had been given more they would have written anything better, and not just made it more boring?
 
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Gladius Legis

Explorer
This is a common claim I see, but who is better qualified how much story they have to tell than the ones that write the story?
If they said they had something for 6 episodes, why would you assume that if they had been given more they would have written anything better, and not just made it more boring?
I wouldn't assume that because it's Dumb & Dumber and their writing has been bad since Season 5, when the series largely passed the books. But the biggest source of fatal flaws in this particular season is that it's rushed and left no room for character development to lead into its most "shocking" moments.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Season 5 looks better by comparison now. Season 6 is probably the best one in the second half of the show. Season 7 was when it started to feel rushed.

If you watch the earlier ones it's really a series of short cutscenes of around 5 or 6 minutes. That was enough to cover the plot and character development.

Leaves episode 2 as the peak of this season IMHO.
 

Kramodlog

Adventurer
Nobody cheered mass murder(at least not pertaining to Game of Thrones).
People cheered at Dany's mass crucifixions. True story.

It's a show. It's all pretend. And nobody should be condemned for cheering something pretend on TV.
It’s a reflection of people's values and the values of our societies. Nobody cheered the rape of Sansa. Some people cheered Dany's mass crucifixions, murders by fire or by starvation. It means that in our societies it is not morally acceptable to publically condomn rape (even if some guys do praise it in some dark corner of the internet), but that praising murder is ok. And it is the case because people are ok with murder, as Sadras said so himself in this thread. Well, this what being ok with murder by a politician really means.

I like that the show gives a realistic (sort-ish) portrait of a murderous despot and how it confronts the audience with it bloodlust and morality. It is heavy handed cause the writing sucks for the TV show but it does seem to be Martin's goal.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
People cheered at Dany's mass crucifixions. True story.
None of those were real. True story.

It’s a reflection of people's values and the values of our societies. Nobody cheered the rape of Sansa. Some people cheered Dany's mass crucifixions, murders by fire or by starvation. It means that in our societies it is not morally acceptable to publically condomn rape (even if some guys do praise it in some dark corner of the internet), but that praising murder is ok. And it is the case because people are ok with murder, as Sadras said so himself in this thread. Well, this what being ok with murder by a politician really means.
Cheering fiction in no way reflects any true value of society. Cheering fictional crucifixions doesn't in any way indicate that someone would cheer a real one. You are comparing apples and oranges, and it just doesn't work.
 

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