Gamers and Stereotypes

[I'm A Banana]

Loud and clear now:

HOBBIES ARE NOT LIFESTYLE CHOICES

What works for others works for you, too. What's stopping you from engaging someone in conversation about what they care about? What's stopping you from presenting yourself in better clothes and better hygine for someone else? Why be this selfish? What does it get you?

If you're happy, fine. But if you're not, maybe some gentle bowing to the masses will help you to be so.

People hide their true natures behind a veneer of social norms. It's the only reason we don't kill each other for being lying, cheating, manipulative little twicks. Refusing to is not a point of assertive personality, it's a point of being a selfish person who would rather do things for his own benefit that someone else's.

Again, there's nothing inherently flawed with that, if you're content living that life. But if you're not, maybe you could start taking other people's thoughts and ideas into account once in a while. Maybe you could develop a working basic knowledge of a sport or four, or of how stocks work. That doens't change YOU, that changes how you are seen by others, and there is a dramatic difference. How you are seen by others is always intentionally deceptive people people, in general, don't want to see what you're really like.

Those who do want to see what you're really like...those people you game with, those people who find your own ideas interesting...those are the people you can develop friendships and relationships with, regardless of their conversation about stocks and sports. Sooner or later, maybe a girl will come a long who you can stink with. I know I've dated some girls who were quite a bit less hygenic than I...er, in fact, all of them...wow...either I'm a bit obessive about cleaning or I've dated some pretty hardcore slobs...

Er, anyway, you can either stop being selfish, or stop giving half a turd about what other people say. Or more likely, a combo of both.

This Tuff Luv brought to you by my inner Reapersaurus (how's THAT for old school!)

 

[pogre]

Originally Posted by Elf Witch
When I see gamers who are in the mid 20s who fit the sterotype I have to wonder why. Is it a psychological problem that stops them from being able to fit into mainstream society or is that they don't want to. Is it a badge of honor they wear. Society didn't let them fit in when they were teen agers so why should they bother to try and fit in now, It is the principle that counts.

You started your rant with this quote, but everything you have said so far absolutely reinforces what Elf Witch stated. You have a passive/aggressive badge of honor thing going. The question is - are you happy? If folks put up with you in their D&D games - sounds good to me. If your happy not having a S.O. - more power to you. If you really don't care what folks think - right on man.

But I think the truth is, all of that stuff really makes you mad.

If I'm wrong, your world is so far out of my experience I can offer no sound piece of advice to you.

 

[the Lorax]

Personally I wouldn't bother to catagorize gamers as "socially inept" or anything like that. I see friends of mine, gamers, 3 or more days a week, every week, and have for years. I think about other non-gamers I know, and they do not have the the type of devoted friendships that many of us enjoy. Screw what anyone else has to say about gamers or gaming.

 

[twofalls]

So my theory is that you'll reach Kluge-vana and won't care what people think anymore after you've wrestled with this problem for a few more years. IMO the thing is to realize that both everyone else and you have a problem, but you're only going to fix yours and that problem is that you have to learn to accept yourself to the degree that these other things fade away. Work on the friendships that you have with people that accept you. Work on showering, moving into your own home, girlfriends, weight, hobbies, sports, etc. when/if those things interest you. It's a lot easier for people to enjoy things when you don't feel like a gun is being held to your head telling you "do this or else people won't like you."

I'm going to wear my Iron Maiden t-shirt to my cushy office job tomorrow. And then at noon I'm going to surf over to enworld, read about DnD, and laugh to myself about how I don't work at Blockbuster. Then maybe the day after I'll go get a tatoo.

And for the love of Odin, don't listen to anything you read on a girl gamers thread. Man, I feel dirty for just reading that thing.

Gizmo, I've read a lot of your replies in threads on this board, and I like you man, you are okay in my book.

I've never called myself a geek because I've always found the term vaguely insulting. Oh, I fit the stereotype I suppose. I've played RPG's for 26 years; I worked in the computer field for 8 years and am the go to person in my family and group of friends for all computer issues. I also despise television and read a great deal. I don't see smoking, excessive drinking, or womanizing as attributes that make you cool, and frankly I don't associate with folks who think that way either, so I just don't believe the people who are being defined as being in the "cool crowd" in this thread (using these criteria) really deserve that title. Now that I'm entering my middle years I've gained quite a few lbs and I have the standard American two car garage and SUV parked outside. So perhaps I fit the popularly accepted geek concept, but I just don't use the term to describe myself.

That being said I was a high school football and tennis jock and married the school beauty (who happens to be the most amazing human being I've ever been blessed to know) and she has retained those good looks and sweet personality throughout all our years together. My kids are wonderful and respectful, I do shower every day and wear comfortable nice looking clothes, and I keep myself well groomed. My friends, both gaming and non-gaming are respectable, clean, intelligent people whom I love very dearly. My gaming buddies and I have been playing for a very long time together (between 6 - 26 years), and we are completely devoted to each other and our hobby. I'm not shy about speaking about role-playing to whoever might be interested, but I don't focus the conversation on myself or tell stories about my favorite 30th level Paladin/Assassin either. Rather I explain to folks that role-playing is an inventive creative outlet for my inner storyteller, and I've not ever had someone respond to me in a negative fashion. In fact they have always either been genuinely interested in the conversation or just indicate that it's not their cup of tea and wander to other topics. I think perhaps the reason for this is because I feel confidant about myself and when I'm speaking with others, people can't help but notice that I'm not afraid of who I am.

I'm not putting all this into print to say what a wonderful guy I am; I'm saying it all to point out that stereotypes, by their very natures, are false. If you are being categorized by others then I suggest that you try yourself to stop buying into the categorization. You defined a stereotype and then put yourself into it and said this is me. Well that’s BS. You are who you decide to be, and none other. What you think about yourself is who you are, and that is a simple truism. It might not change your circumstances at the snap of your fingers, but it will change them over time, that’s called cause and effect.

Personal grooming, hygiene, and presentation are an outward reflection of your inward opinion of yourself. It's been many years since I've had to deal with a gamer that was slovenly. I just don't loose players from my games anymore and so rarely have openings. I've had gamers show up to coffee houses to meet with me about my games before (I always screen candidates) who’ve demonstrated slovenly personal hygiene. Those folks haven't ever been invited to game with us, because if they care so little about themselves that they won't take care of their appearance, what other problems are they carrying about that might be issues I will have to deal with down the road? Does that mean that I'm judging the book by its cover? Probably, but that is one of realities of social interaction, and railing against it might help you release a little steam (which is good) but doesn't resolve the issue.

I don't really know if anything I'm typing here actually helps you. You seem like an intelligent thoughtful young fellow and are demonstrating the ability to be introspective by your post here. I applaud you for speaking out about yourself in candid fashion. If advice was something you were seeking then I'd say Gizmo hit the nail on the head. Be yourself, but in doing so I’d caution you to consider the effects your personal habits might have on others and use that as one part of the guide to decide who you really want to be. Best wishes!

 

[twofalls]

WOW! I typed my response to the original poster after only reading to the post of Gizmo's that I quoted. After reading the whole thread, I find it reaffirming that there are a lot of really great people on Enworld!

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Loud and clear now:

HOBBIES ARE NOT LIFESTYLE CHOICES

Er, anyway, you can either stop being selfish, or stop giving half a turd about what other people say. Or more likely, a combo of both.

You are right, hobbies are not lifestyle choices. On the other hand, my hobbies are part of my life.

See, I'm stuck in a unique situation. I really like who I am, I like my life EXCEPT for one point. I don't like the fact that I am completely without female companionship at the moment. I've had gfs and I'm not a virgin or anything. But I get lonely a decent amount. Otherwise, I have lots of friends who I game with multiple times per week. I go out to movies, play computer games, spend time with my family, play board games. But, yes, I wish I knew of a female who liked the same things I did. I actually know only one, and they are engaged to another person in one my my groups.

I actually don't get much discrimination from normal people. I've never been told that I stink or had people not invite me to do something for that reason (that I'm aware of), and as long as I'm not aware of it, it normally doesn't matter anyways. Actually, this was more posted because of my frustration of being outnumbered in people I know by the vast majority of people who do smoke or drink or do drugs. By people who like sports, beer, bars, dancing. I actually may dislike some of that, personally, but I've never really discriminated against people who do that sort of thing. If I did, I'd be discriminating against 98% of the world, it seems and against 60% of my friends. I don't like it, but that doesn't mean I hate other people for liking it.

As a side note, I just found out one of my coworkers during the day who leaves about an hour after I get in each day is actually a gamer. I was talking to her about games and such. Found out that she thinks that D&D is a game for powergamers and hack and slashers and can only be used for that purpose and doesn't really like it. She plays Vampire: TM, only in LARP form though. She plays Rifts and WoW. Of course, she probably fits the "gamer" stereotype as well. She was overweight, mid 20s, glasses, hairy arms. I didn't think she looked bad, mind you, I have different sensibilities than most people. But, still, I'm kind of a hack and slasher myself, and I have a feeling if we talked too much we'd probably end up hating each other anyways. Sometimes the LARP/table top, Hack and Slash/Roleplayer prejudice is almost worse than the non-gamer prejudice for us.

 

[Algolei]

I haven't showered since Christmas.

 

[S'mon]

I think I'm fairly tolerant, and I wouldn't claim to be not a geek, but there are several types of people I wouldn't want in my house where I GM, including druggies and people who smell bad and reek the place up. People who are extremely fat (American fat, not just British fat) could also be a problem since I have small chairs & limited space at my gaming table. I guess this puts me on the same side as Teflon Billy on this (*eek*). Also no smoking in the house - my wife smokes outside, any smoking players do too. Also (& I suspect unlike TB) I prefer no swearing at the game table; though I'll swear often enough at the pub I don't when I GM, I think it makes a better atmosphere. I do have a new player who swears and I haven't told him not to, I guess it's a minor point but I'm trying to lead by example.
I'm not sure how socially aberrant it is to be a virgin at 23 (which was when I met my future wife) - I was an undergrad at Oxford, 70% male, where most of the guys in my class (Law) were virgins at 18 when we started and still virgins at 21 when we graduated. OTOH with that 70/30 ratio the girls certainly weren't virgins for long. This didn't seem to make them any happier than the rest of us though, most of them seemed to feel they'd been taken advantage of by the predatory older male students & postgrads.

 

[Flyspeck23]

Am I a geek? Perhaps. Probably.
Am I a walking stereotype? Don't think so.
Am I cool? I'm over 30 - how could I?
Did my 20s rock? - You bet.
Do I shower? - Yes, and at least once a week I'll take a bath (nothing like reading RPG books in the tube... and no accident for more than 20 years doing it ).
Do I like sports? - Yes, soccer, basketball and baseball, because I can play those in the park. I hate watching sports on TV, though.

Anyway, a friend of mine's pretty much just a stereotypical geek: wearing all black, living alone, tech apartment (3 computers etc.), grossly overweighted.
But at least he takes a shower at least every two days - he knows that as a fat guy he's prone to smell if he doesn't.

Why am I writing this? Well, I'll tell you - after you tell me what this thread is about

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Why am I writing this? Well, I'll tell you - after you tell me what this thread is about

I'm not sure I have any idea what it's about actually. Then again, when did not having a point has never stopped me from posting in the past. *grin*

I think it had to do with seeing the post from Elf Witch that seemed to make fun of, what I felt was me, and a large amount of gamers I know. I don't like gamers fighting other gamers or making fun of them. I mean, our hobby is small enough as it is, and I feel most of the non-gamers make fun of us enough as is, we don't have to add to it by making it a war between the "clean cut, normal job, closet gamers" and the "overweight, geeky, dedicated gamers".

I also think the second point is, that I have no idea how a stereotype that's probably as old as I am manages to fit me so closely despite no effort on my part to fit into that stereotype. I am who I am, I've always been this way. I guess I'm just looking for a reason why the stereotype exists. I assume it must mean that a significant number of gamers fit the stereotype. The question is why? Why are all these people all over the place all similar in appearance and attitude. There is a reason the comic book guy is funny.