Gamers keeping Shabbat

HalWhitewyrm said:

I was thinking of this design last night as well. Probably a bit more complicated; I would imagine it is doable, but I've no idea of how much work it would be.
We could do that (assuming we get the d20 Logo permission).

See, what I would do if I were inclined to start such a group is form the JGA: Jewish Gamers Association. The symbol would be a Star of David with a d20 dice in the middle, and the slogan would be "Gaming on a higher level." :)
IF I were inclined to start such a group. It'd be fun.
We could do that too. :D
 

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mythago: And I know you mean well, but not only is Christianity a Jewish Reform movement but it is (you can come out and say it if that is what you are thinking) a Jewish Heresy. It doesn't bother me any. My own tradition is a Heresy of a Heresy in some of my friends eyes (Protestantism), and I have some friends who have compounded the 'folly' by being heretics of heretics of heretics (Mormons). But hopefully we are all past the crucifying and burning at the stake stage?

Seriously, all I was trying to say was that despite our different outlooks on who God is and what He demands of us, we have alot in common. And the comment about 'rules lawyering', if you are familiar with the teaching of those who follow the err 'Nazarene Heresy', largely have to do with not evading the spirit of the law by trying to find loopholes in the letter of the law. I would hope that that is something that Jew, Gentile, and Islam can agree on.
 

I think we can agree on that, but you can't know what rules you're choosing to follow or not unless you know what the rules are. :)

"Reform" is a specific branch of Judaism; it doesn't refer to other varieties or developments from Judaism, like Christianity. A lot of Reform Jews are touchy about this, just FYI, because they are accused ot being "lazy Jews" or not really following Judaism.
 

mythago said:
Um. Celebrim, I know you meant well, but Christianity is not a "Jewish Reform" movement.
I don't think it was meant that way. It was a reference to a common "joke" (which I originally heard from Reform Jews, by the way) that Reform Jews are so liberal that they might as well be Catholics (or Christians, for that matter). I've never really felt it is said in a bad way, but rather a reference to the fact that most Christian religions do not have the number of rules that Judaism does (I say most because there are various Christian sects that do have their own share of rules, e.g. Seventh-Day Adventists, Baptists, etc.).
It's not a barb against Catholicism and/or Christianity.
 

I know it's not meant as anything bad (against Christianity, either), but I know many Reform Jews who find the "Reform = halachic slacker" thing hurtful. Just a FYI.

Can the d20 license go on the inside of the kippah, or maybe on a small band running around the outside rim?
 

mythago said:
I know it's not meant as anything bad (against Christianity, either), but I know many Reform Jews who find the "Reform = halachic slacker" thing hurtful. Just a FYI.
Oh, I know. I was just explaining for those who didn't know. No biggie.

Can the d20 license go on the inside of the kippah, or maybe on a small band running around the outside rim?
Technically, I think including it in a package should be enough. Even if you tape it to the inside of the kippah (which the wearer will obviously remove) should be okay. But I am not a lawyer so we wait for Anthony Valterra to reply.
 

If I may, I think what Celebrim meant is being confused.

I think (Celebrim, tell me if I'm mangling what you meant) that he didn't mean to link Reform Judaism and Christianity together at all. Rather, he meant to point out that Christianity ultimately has its roots in Judaism and, from that point of view, is a "splinter sect" of it that is very very very different from the "base" religion it deviated from. This isn't an insult to Christians, its just fact. Jesus was a Jew, Christians use the "old Testament" as part of their Bible, use the Ten "Commandments" etc.

Reform Judaism isn't anything like that at all. It's just the branch of Judaism that takes a more liberal view of the various laws and traditions. They sometimes get referred to as "the Lazy" but thats no worse than the other two branches (Orthodox being "the Crazy" and Conservative being "the Hazy", collectively a very popular Jewish joke).
 

Alzarius is right, and I hope that I haven't tread to hard on some of the reform Jews by seeming to equate Reform Jewish to being the equivalent of Christianity. I'm well aware the Christianity was a much bigger departure from Orthodox Judaism than Reform Jew. I also didn't realize that there was current and significant enough ill will between the various practices of Judiasm to make such a subject sensitive - as it aparantly is.

But what I meant was basically no more than the historical record: about two thousand years ago there was born a certain Jew to a Jewish mother. He was raised by a carpenter, though exactly who the father was appeared to have been a source of contriversy - some in the village said the carpenter, others fingered a Roman centurian, and the family themselves kept very tight lipped about it. When this Jew was about the age of 30 he became a wandering rabbi and mystic, as was a common practice in the day. He gained a great following among the masses, because he spoke out against the corruption of organized religion, the aristocracy, and hypocricy. He taught that the law had to be observed according to its spirit, namely that we love God and love one another, and not only according to to a complex set of regulations - especially when such regulations were used to evade the spirit of the law. He was in very many ways, seen as just another Jewish reform sect. However, utlimately much of his following left him, because his teachings were too hard, or too radical, or too strange for easy digestion. He said many Heretical things; most notably he implied that he was the Son of God and coequal with him. You can imagine how well that was recieved in a religion that prided itself on a inhuman and singular god. The core group that survived proved so troublesome to the religious and secular authorities of the day that ultimately a decision was reached to execute him. However, something momentus happened of which history does not say, but the followers of the Naverene Heretic came to believe that he had not died. The religious leaders of the time accused the Christians of stealing the body and performing some elaborate hoax, but the ring leaders who might have pulled off such a hoax never renounced there position and the new heretical branch of Judaism consequently flourished.

So I wasn't meaning to insult or judge anyone, merely refer to historical facts.
 

Alzrius said:
traditions. They sometimes get referred to as "the Lazy" but thats no worse than the other two branches (Orthodox being "the Crazy" and Conservative being "the Hazy", collectively a very popular Jewish joke).

The L/C/Hazy... that's good.

I think that applies to d20 players too, at least in my group. We have the Min/maxers who do high level statistical analysis on what the best chances of one killing a certain creature may be while using different attack methods.

Then there are those people who know all the rules, like to use them when necessary, but still want to actually try to talk there way past a guard using RP rather than a d20 Bluff check...

And of course, there are those players who never, ever can remember to take a 5 foot step to avoid an AoO

Who knew that RP and Religion had so many parallels?
 

Celebrim said:
But what I meant was basically no more than the historical record: ...

So I wasn't meaning to insult or judge anyone, merely refer to historical facts.

Well, as a Holder of a Degree in History, focusing on 2nd Temple Era Judaism, and a student of the Jesus Seminar, I greatly disagree with many of your "Facts," and recognizing that this is not the place for the discussion thereof, Let's get back to D&D.

I remember a really fun AD&D game I once played. The DM wanted it sent in Medieval France, and we all took on pseudo-historical personas for our characters. The paladin was a Christian crusader, the Cleric a priest... yadda yadda; I played a sort of wizard like character, who was Jewish, and was really behind the scenes and never seen with the general public. Kind of stuck to his 'ghetto' and clandestine meetings with the powerful elite, :)

Much fun, much fun.
 

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