Games Workshop notes that space fascism would be bad

[Scribe]

My solution would be to totally drop the human faction. Sell no more space facists armies. Ban the Human only faction from play. But that would affect Warhammers profit margin.

Thats not a solution at all.

The solution, is to go back to writing the fiction/lore, in a way that makes it clear that the Imperium is actually the bad guy of the setting, to stop trying to paint the Imperium as noble in any way, and to just hammer home the point that the whole of the Imperium needs to be burned to the ground.

cough

/Team Chaos.

 

[MGibster]

The solution, is to go back to writing the fiction/lore, in a way that makes it clear that the Imperium is actually the bad guy of the setting, to stop trying to paint the Imperium as noble in any way, and to just hammer home the point that the whole of the Imperium needs to be burned to the ground.

This seems unlikely. With GW gaining a more mainstream audience, they'll continue to dial back the evils of the Imperium by ushering in the promise of a new golden age. That's kind of what primaris marines are all about.

 

[gorice]

The whole thing with primaris and the Robot Girlyman resurrection is a big missed opportunity, honestly. They could have split the imperium into various factions locked in a civil war, which would let them have both revanchists and revolutionaries locked in a civil war, while doubling down on the 'only war' and space feudalism stuff. Then people could choose their poison.

 

[Scribe]

This seems unlikely. With GW gaining a more mainstream audience, they'll continue to dial back the evils of the Imperium by ushering in the promise of a new golden age. That's kind of what primaris marines are all about.

In a surprise to nobody, this is the exact wrong approach in my opinion.

 

[MGibster]

In a surprise to nobody, this is the exact wrong approach in my opinion.

As we've discussed on this message board in regards to D&D, after so many decades, the audience has changed. They're made up of a more diverse population with different values and experiences from the audience in the 80s and 90s. To remain relevant, the game must change.

 

[Scribe]

As we've discussed on this message board in regards to D&D, after so many decades, the audience has changed. They're made up of a more diverse population with different values and experiences from the audience in the 80s and 90s. To remain relevant, the game must change.

I disagree.

40K can remain 40K, and be as successful as it deserves based on the fact it isnt just the same thing as everything else.

To remove the terrible state of affairs, is to remove what makes 40K what it is.

I mean the $$$ speaks, and ultimately you are right its just a matter of time, but it will be a lesser product when they do change in the way you are describing.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

As has been pointed out, WH 40K lore is all about why the models fight each other. I don’t find the Imperium to be bad guys in comparison to all the others that are being fought against. All the different factions are racists that hate everyone else and have their entire societies devoted to war.

The humans are a little easier to identify with, maybe, and they are at risk of being exterminated so maybe that is why the crazed leaders are in charge as they are keeping the humans alive (so far).

As for Starship Troopers, the director screwed up. He took a book written by a failed left wing politician where the bugs were his stand-in for communists and used the basic story and quite a bit of the dialogue without the director ever actually reading the book. So he made a direct satire and then screwed up because the source material was the opposite. I loved the movie because it proves how powerful the ideas that Heinlein presented in the novel really were.

The only unforgivable change for me that the director made was making the protagonist a white guy when the book clearly has him as Filipino. To see a book written when it was with a POC as the hero also had a big effect on me when I read it when I was 12 or so. (I am white and most of the foundation SF I was reading 40+ years ago had heroic whites as pretty much everyone in the books).

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

(I'm to old school to call them Astra Minitarum).

But not old school enough to call them Imperial Army

 

[Mannahnin]

As has been pointed out, WH 40K lore is all about why the models fight each other. I don’t find the Imperium to be bad guys in comparison to all the others that are being fought against. All the different factions are racists that hate everyone else and have their entire societies devoted to war.

The humans are a little easier to identify with, maybe, and they are at risk of being exterminated so maybe that is why the crazed leaders are in charge as they are keeping the humans alive (so far).

They're certainly all bad, and Chaos generally is certainly WORSE than the Imperium, but that's not saying much for the Imperium, which is tragicomically awful.

As for Starship Troopers, the director screwed up. He took a book written by a failed left wing politician where the bugs were his stand-in for communists and used the basic story and quite a bit of the dialogue without the director ever actually reading the book. So he made a direct satire and then screwed up because the source material was the opposite. I loved the movie because it proves how powerful the ideas that Heinlein presented in the novel really were.

I don't think Verhoeven screwed up. He didn't understand or deliberately distorted the message of the book, but he made the movie satire of fascism that he intended to make. Yes, he kind of micturated on Heinlein's grave, but the movie is fundamentally successful as what it was trying to do, which (perhaps sadly) wasn't to be a faithful rendition of Heinlein's book. (Also, maybe I'm quibbling a little, but "failed politician" seems like a funny way to describe Heinlein. )

The only unforgivable change for me that the director made was making the protagonist a white guy when the book clearly has him as Filipino. To see a book written when it was with a POC as the hero also had a big effect on me when I read it when I was 12 or so. (I am white and most of the foundation SF I was reading 40+ years ago had heroic whites as pretty much everyone in the books).

It makes sense for the movie Verhoeven made. He needed an "Aryan" poster boy for his fascism send-up. I do think, of course, that any real (faithful) Starship Troopers movie would and should of course show Johnny as Filipino. While Heinlein was in some ways a reactionary, and ST was written at perhaps the height of those tendencies in him, his progressivism on race was almost always (a few dark spots like in Farmham's Freehold aside) one of his better qualities.

 

[Mannahnin]

But not old school enough to call them Imperial Army

Eh? Were they called Imperial Army prior to 1989?

RTB7 Imperial Guard

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