Gaming W/Jemal: Planar Quest! (Closed)

[D'Raven]

Mostly i see hide In plain sight as a mechanic that shows you are really good at using the hide skill.

How is it ill defined?

From the srd. "a shadow dancer can use the hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow. A shadow dancer can hide herself from view in the open with out anything to actually hide behind. She can not how ever hide in her own shadow."

that seems defined to me. You can not hide when some one is watching you normally because they see where you go. This let's you do that.

It gives the prerequisite needed for the ability to function.

It tells you what it does. Removes the need to physically have something to hide behind.
And it tells you the limitation of it.

Stop thinking it cloaks you on shadows it doesn't mention anything about that.not even I the dungeon masters manual as fluff. If it did the ability wouldn't work out side of shadow. A shadowy blob is standing 10 feet from the shadow. At that point it would give a miss chance not the ability to hide. It is more like knowing how to blend in to the back ground. Yes it is far fetched when you look at it from the rules as they are. It is like trying to understand how the reserve feats work in the system. It changes the rules of the system where they apply to the one using it.

 

[Binder Fred]

Then it would be an Extraordinary ability, wouldn't it? It's supernatural though, does not work in places where magic does not work, so by definition it must use magic to do... something that the rule-writer hasn't bothered to think about or note down, granted, but clearly.... *something*.

EDIT= That something being clearly magical *and* deceitful of the targets visual senses, falls entirely within the domain of TS, IMHO, whatever the un-described effect actually does. For example, chameleon-like "blending into the background" is either an illusory effect or a physical transformation, both of which fall under TS's umbrella.

 

[Shayuri]

Must we fight over everything?

Let's just play for a bit and see if there's actually a problem. Then, if so, we can argue about how to fix it.

 

[D'Raven]

You work with what you got. It doesn't duplicate any spell, it doesn't mention like or similar to. It does not say conceal or displace. The only term it uses is hide. And point out in TS where it says it works agains hiding? Would TS negate the magical bonus from items? You can argue that they are a magical means of concealment. Or do they magically increase your ability to hide? That is the difference that could be I'll defined if you want to look for one. Perhaps the ability confers knowledge to you or increases your natural abilities. That would be a mental boost and TS would not effect that. Of course this is only if you want to look at it as I'll defined

 

[Jemal]

Damit, was gonna post like two hours ago to try and head this off, but works been too steady.
My official ruling ontrue sight is that it does not go through hips or magics that give hide bonuses.
It has a specific and rather long list of what it does and does not see through. The fact that they use the descriptive term 'simply' hiding doesn't, by my reckoning, open that back up. If hips were from a more recent source perhaps I'd consider it, but it existed as part of two (three?) classes at time of printing, and was a known commonly used effect from 3.0
The fact that several of the things they DO point out are less common than hips leads me to infer that they did not simply miss it.

 

[D'Raven]

The three classes at first printing 3.5 are ranger, assassin and shadow dancer

 

[kinem]

Well, this is one reason we have DMs. I disagree with Jemal's ruling, but for the purposes of this particular game, at least we have a ruling and can move on.

BTW, I have picked up the Voidsense (blindsense) invocation as I suspect it could come in handy in other situations. I admit that this situation prompted me to look at that option again. So Braham has been tracking Darrian the whole time; he just hasn't made a big deal of it.

 

[Binder Fred]

I will just say that it's not just the "simply", it's the entire logic of both powers. God knows we've all seen broken, ill-thought out, ill-described powers before. Why we should suddenly assume this one has been fully thought out and detailed (to the point that we base judgments on it specifically *not* mentioning something when it's entirely lacking a description in *how* it functions to begin with) sort of escapes me... Ah well. Moving on.

 

[D'Raven]

When you say this one you mean true seeing right? A single spell that defeats every method of stealth or evasion you can have aside from hiding?because yes it is broken.. This is just me being an douche But I just reread true seeing and no where does it say itsees through magic. It gives a list and no place does it say all magical means. But moving on.

 

[Binder Fred]

Added a Blindsight capability to Ur's goggles (through a Blindfold of True Darkness, MIC p.75). Got the cash by moving his DEX boosting item to its own Glove slot (thereby getting rid of its 1.5 item stacking cost increasing) and trading-in his spare adamantium gauntlet. The blindsight ability will not be able to function at the same time as the goggles TS ability, obviously, and has not been built-in IC yet, as it's his response to the scene that just happened. Upgrade will occur the very next time he has access to a magical shop or equivalent.