GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I have modified post 26 slightly for illustration:

Hmmm....

$12 for a 64-page full-color product with handouts, a CD, and a poster map?

If it's available on amazon, it would probably be for $7.92. (And, make that $7.13 with my gold box coupon.)

Sounds great!

DaveMage, I'm on your side! At this price, I'll buy ten of them! I'm very much looking forward to this book, even if it is three months of my gaming budget.

 

[Staffan]

I think its admirable that Monte has enough fans on these boards that he can garner large support for his price gouging.
Yes, price gouging.
If you dont realize it, youre kidding yourself.

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Price gouging refers to increasing prices to take advantage of a shortage of supply, usually in the wake of a crisis of some sort. For example, let's say some sort of natural disaster leads to a pollution of the local tap water. The local merchants immediately triple the cost of bottled water - that's price gouging.

In Monte's case, there are plenty of competing products at other levels of pricing. Plus, RPGs are a luxury - I don't think you can price gouge on a luxury.

 

[dagger]

Holy crapola, Batman! I had intended to buy the book until I saw that price. That is ridiculous! I did not buy WLD because of the price gouging. I am a Monte fan, but there is no way I could ever afford a book that pricey. Heck, I had trouble with the price for Shackled City and I get a hefty discount. My gamestore still cannot sell their other copy of Shackled City. There is no way I could ask them to stock Monte's book.

The publishers may be pricing higher because of Amazon, but these prices are going to kill retail stores and then they loose the distributors!

I got WLD for 49

 

[Grimstaff]

Quantity and Quality

"I don't think you realize what it costs to produce an undertaking of this scope."

As I said in my post, I dont doubt that Monte is pulling out all the stops with this and it is definitely a labor of love.
My problem is with the precendent it sets for a struggling D20 industry and whether you will actually get $120 worth of use out of the book. How much of the book is vanity project and how much is really needed to run a fun game in Ptolus? Does anyone seriously think they will get as much milage out of this as they do from their $40 Forgotten Realms setting? Or as much milage as they get from the $90 dropped on all three Core Rulebooks?
I think you're missing my point here, which is not so much having a problem with Monte dumping in a bunch of player handouts, CD-Roms, and novel-sized flavor text and turning a $40 campaign setting into a $120 one, its what everyone will do when WotC decides to apply the same strategy to 4E because market research tells them it worked for Ptolus and WLD.
Don't forget, the age demographic for our hobby keeps getting older and older. Do you honestly feel that young gamers will have an opportunity to get into gaming when costs across the industry start to creep ever closer to the $100 mark?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I think you're missing my point here

I thought your point was that Monte was price gouging, which means charging more for the product than it's worth.

Hmm... just read your post again. That's what you said, all right. Twice in just the first two sentences.

Which means you're either ignorant of the definition of price gouging, or ignorant of the value of the product.

Either way, it was a pretty ignorant post, I guess.

One thing that I think bears mentioning from your last post is the ramifications it might have on the industry if it prices young gamers out of the market (an assertion I will address only as devil's advocate):

It would unquestionably be a bad thing for RPGs to price themselves out of the reach of "new gamers," but Ptolus is obviously a DM's purchase (in a market that is already heavily DM-purchase driven anyway), and a sophisticated one at that. I'd wholeheartedly agree with you that a 16-year old is unlikely to get full value from Ptolus-- but then I don't think Ptolus (or any campaign setting of this magnitude) is really aimed at a younger crowd. Their exposure to Ptolus will cost them nothing: A veteran GM with the wherewithal to invest $120 in Ptolus will present it to them free of charge.

To put it another way, quite frankly I don't think the average "young gamer" is even getting full value from the $40-45 campaign settings currently available. Young gamers should be players, first, at minimum investment, and grow into GMs who can not only afford campaign materials, but have the experience to make the most of it.


Wulf

 

[Sunderstone]

Yes - that's exactly what "we" do. The amount of flawed reasoning being tossed about in this thread is mind boggling.

Flawed reasoning according to you? Some of us have different opinions, it doesnt make it flawed because you say so.

I fail to grasp what you are up in arms about Sunderstone. If you don't want it don't buy it. Does this books mere (future) exsistance so infuriate you? If it was 3 $40 books would that somehow be better?

A. I wont even consider buying it at that price.
B. Yes and No to being infuriated. No in a sense Im glad companies produce High Quality work, alot of products didnt meet some expectations. Yes because $120 is too damn expensive for this kind of product.
I agree that companies are around to make money, but $120 is way over the top IMO. I am a Monte Cook fan as well, but I dont think that his name carries that kind of weight. We've all seen how good his works are and we all can agree on that at least. There are also many other talented designers out there... Chris Perkins, Sean Reynolds, Bruce Cordell, Greg Vaughan, Dave Noonan, Skip Williams, Andy Collins, Mike Mearls, Lotsa Necromancer Games writers, etc. I dont hold Monte Cook above all of them

My fear is that some fans will not be able to afford it (and some fans will) which kind of hurts our hobby as a whole. Its eliteist in a sense, if you can afford it... you can play in Monte's world. Monte himself stated there wouldnt be a Ptolus light, Ptolus is Ptolus or somesuch, etc (dont remember the exact quote). I wonder how his fans that cant afford it (for whatever reason) feel about it.

The other fear is that the books are already expensive, Id hate to see more companies following suit and making more books with astronomical price tags. Books are bound to increase in price eventually, but they do so steadily at a lower rate. You vote with your wallet, looks like most people here vote for an evolutionary leap in pricing for RPG material.
We must all be very well off.

 

[Sunderstone]

I thought your point was that Monte was price gouging, which means charging more for the product than it's worth.

Hmm... just read your post again. That's what you said, all right. Twice in just the first two sentences.

Which means you're either ignorant of the definition of price gouging, or ignorant of the value of the product.

Either way, it was a pretty ignorant post, I guess.

Wulf

I think we got the gist of what he meant. Attacking his use of words doesnt help anything.
And some say, I was rude..... :\

 

[Sunderstone]

To add to Wulf and Grimstaff...
Its not just the "young 16 year old gamers" that might not be able to afford it. There are others on a budget as well. Some people have mortgages, car payments, etc. Some people live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Crothian]

To add to Wulf and Grimstaff...
Its not just the "young 16 year old gamers" that might not be able to afford it. There are others on a budget as well. Some people have mortgages, car payments, etc. Some people live paycheck to paycheck.

this isn't the core books, so everyone is not expected to buiy it. Can't afford it, don't get it.

 

[Sunderstone]

this isn't the core books, so everyone is not expected to buiy it. Can't afford it, don't get it.

You're missing the point.