GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[mythusmage]

$20.00 down payment, $10.00 a month. Plus shipping and handling. You can't afford that, you're in college.

 

[drothgery]

I thought your point was that Monte was price gouging, which means charging more for the product than it's worth.

More than that, it's taking an exorbiant profit on something in a market where there's little or no competition, and where choosing to buy nothing isn't a viable option. It's almost impossible to be price gouging in the RPG industry. It's possible to charge too much for things, but that just means that gamers will buy different products, or spend their "fun money" on other hobbies (like video games or novels). And systematic pricing errors might well be bad for the industry in the long run. But as long as there are free SRDs and $5 PDFs, and $20-$40 standard game books, then the odd $60-$120 luxury product isn't a bad thing, any more than the existence of Lexus keeps you from buying a Toyota or taking the bus.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Well - that's great! More high end products (my most anticipated one is World's Largest City) can only be a good thing. Your line of reasoning that low end books won't be published is weak and fatally flawed.

Weak and flawed? COnsidering you've totally misrepresented the "line of reasoning", I don't doubt you consider it so.

I'm not saying someone's going to take a $10 adventure, put a cobbelstone cover on it and call it a Premium Adventure for $25. What I'm saying is, there are plenty of Monte Cook fans that want a Ptolus book, and would gladly pay $40 for a 300 page book without the CD and ton's of stat blocks and cross referencing. They won't have that option, they can either put up $120 or get nothing. (Those that like PDF can buy PDF, but many folks will only buy the print book, regardless of how the PDF market has expanded.)

The book will be a success, financially. If the next time someone wants to make a MEDIUM range product (not "low end", that's your strawman, not mine.) and decides instead to make it High End Exclusively, it will leave plenty of fans out.

My real point isn't that a high end product is bad, I just think having an exclusively Hgh End product is. Most of the other expensive books in this thread have been Limited Editions that also had a more accessible version.

Like I mentioned previously, I've no interest in the Ptolus setting. Looking at the Pre Order package, I think it's a nice package for what you get, but that still assumes you want all those things you're getting.

To use an analogy, I can preorder the XBox 360 from EBGames, but only in bundles that include games and accessories that I don't want. I can't justify paying that amount of money for stuff I don't need or want. If a more accessible product isn't available, I won't buy it, and I will lose out on buying a product that I want, and which COULD have been produced in a price point I could have bought it for, but instead was raised beyond my grasp.

Clearer now?

 

[Waylander the Slayer]

Take a deep breath and keep repeating (Bart Simpsion style):

Gaming products are a LUXURY; Food, water and housing are a necessity.

ergo:

It is OK for someone to price a gaming product at what they think is the right production value. We are a consumer driven society, hence it is the consumer's choice to buy something or not. If you think something is too expensive, there is absolutely no NEED to buy it. There will always be RPG products that range from free to pricy. The price elasticty is being tested by "higher end" products. So what? Buy what you want, based on your budget. If it is too pricy or will break your budget, then do not buy it. We as consumers do it on a daily basis, be it whether to buy a car or to buy clothes.Enjoy and celebrate the fact that we have a CHOICE, rather than none at all.

 

[Vocenoctum]

The price elasticty is being tested by "higher end" products. So what? Buy what you want, based on your budget. If it is too pricy or will break your budget, then do not buy it. We as consumers do it on a daily basis, be it whether to buy a car or to buy clothes.Enjoy and celebrate the fact that we have a CHOICE, rather than none at all.

Lets say Monte did this as a $60 book, with lesser frills, no CD, etc. Compared to the $120 version, he will make less per book, but sell more books. Lets assume for the same of arguement that he makes the same amount of profit either way.

Wouldn't the $60 book please a lot more fans? The book would out there in stores, folks would still be complaining about pricing, but a lot more would buy it. Making both versions would be better from a customer standpoint since then the Deluxe Ptolus would please the high end market, while Standard Ptolus would please the others.

So, yes as consumers, people have a choice. In this case though, a lot of people that would choose to buy it, are not given an option that gets them the book for what they can reasonable allocate to getting it.

 

[Campbell]

Lets say Monte did this as a $60 book, with lesser frills, no CD, etc. Compared to the $120 version, he will make less per book, but sell more books. Lets assume for the same of arguement that he makes the same amount of profit either way.

Wouldn't the $60 book please a lot more fans? The book would out there in stores, folks would still be complaining about pricing, but a lot more would buy it. Making both versions would be better from a customer standpoint since then the Deluxe Ptolus would please the high end market, while Standard Ptolus would please the others.

So, yes as consumers, people have a choice. In this case though, a lot of people that would choose to buy it, are not given an option that gets them the book for what they can reasonable allocate to getting it.

Although I cannot speak for Monte, I'd guess that the reason Monte isn't producing a version of Ptolus without all the bells and whistles is because as far as Monte is concerned those bells and whistles are essential features of the work, rather than extras. It seems that an enormous amount of graphic design work has gone into Ptolus in order to create a unique product.

Even if we ignore the eventual PDF releases, it is important to consider that Ptolus is more than a tool: it is a creative work. While more fans may have preferred it if Monte decided to develope a version of Ptolus without all the bells and whistles, it is entirely possible that for creative reasons Monte doesn't wish to create such a version without features that he might consider essential to the product.

There is no moral imperative to create lower-end versions of high-end products. I might not buy Ptolus, but I will not feel begrudged because Monte's design goals do not fit my current whims. After all, there are plenty of other products out there to choose from. I do not need Ptolus in much the same way I do not need an XBox 360. There are no victims here.

My tone might be a little harsh. If it is, I apologize.

 

[DaveMage]

Unless a poster has access to the costs involved in putting this together, I hardly think they can comment on a what a "scaled-down" version would cost. Also, to say that more would sell at a lower price is not necessarily true. I pretty much guarantee you that if the price was set at $60, you'd see the same people bitching that $60 was too high.

Also, I have a feeling that many (though obviously not all) of the bashers on here are merely disappointed that they cannot afford the $120, which I can certainly understand.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Although I cannot speak for Monte, I'd guess that the reason Monte isn't producing a version of Ptolus without all the bells and whistles is because as far as Monte is concerned those bells and whistles are essential features of the work, rather than extras. It seems that an enormous amount of graphic design work has gone into Ptolus in order to create a unique product.

Even if we ignore the eventual PDF releases, it is important to consider that Ptolus is more than a tool: it is a creative work. While more fans may have preferred it if Monte decided to develope a version of Ptolus without all the bells and whistles, it is entirely possible that for creative reasons Monte doesn't wish to create such a version without features that he might consider essential to the product.

There is no moral imperative to create lower-end versions of high-end products. I might not buy Ptolus, but I will not feel begrudged because Monte's design goals do not fit my current whims. After all, there are plenty of other products out there to choose from. I do not need Ptolus in much the same way I do not need an XBox 360. There are no victims here.

My tone might be a little harsh. If it is, I apologize.

Nyah, not harsh at all. Basically I agree with you that it's Monte Cook's decision. From his standpoint he's building the product he wants to build, and hopefully he makes a profit doing it. Just like the "if D&D died tommorow, your current books still work" thing, RPG's are indeed distractions and someone will not suffer (well, no more than normal Withdrawel symptoms. for the lack of Ptolus. I'm sure the Prepay Plan will capture a decent amount of those who would otherwise not buy it at launch, though I think it would have done better if delivery was in December instead of Gen Con area.

This doesn't affect me directly, I'm just worried about future products that decide to follow the example. If there's some setting I want, but they make it high-end, then it's there. My other hobby being firearms, I'm not adverse to shelling out cash for what I want, but perceived value and usability does play into it, and frankly a cobblestone book sits on the shelf the same as a soft cover.

Also, power is still out at work, so I've got nothing better to do then sit here at home and respond to clarify what I mean.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I prsonally, would rather see the product split up. Say, 6 books for a total of $150-$200. That way I could pick and choose what parts I wanted. I could have the campaign setting and any prestige class feats, yet pass on the adventure, or any other combination. Plus, flipping through a 600, 800, or wahatever page book just seems tedious. I have enough trouble finding what I'm looking for in the DMG.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Unless a poster has access to the costs involved in putting this together, I hardly think they can comment on a what a "scaled-down" version would cost. Also, to say that more would sell at a lower price is not necessarily true. I pretty much guarantee you that if the price was set at $60, you'd see the same people bitching that $60 was too high.

I wouldn't "complain" if the price was $60. Even if the price was lower, I'd not buy a Ptolus book, so that excludes me. I'm sure more would sell at a lower price, whether that would earn MORE PROFIT, we can't say.

We can't accurately predict what a scaled down version would cost, unless we had other books to compare it to. There are a decent amount of 400 page books for $40, so figuring $60 for a 600 page one doesn't seem horribly out of order. It's just for arguements sake though.