GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[Michael Morris]

I'd have to agree. Which is why I am so sad my fininaces have taken a nosedive. No new gaming books for me until 2007...

But I wouldn't buy Ptolus if I were Donald Trump. I think asking $120 for a gaming book is offensive.

And I think asking game manufactuerers to charge so little for their books that they live well south of the poverty line is far more offensive.

 

[DaveMage]

For comparison, I've seen 600 page college textbooks run for $200 - $300 a pop without a single sketch in them - and that was 10 years ago.

Now THAT's gouging.

 

[Michael Morris]

Now THAT's gouging.

It was an extreme example I guess - everyone knows that college textbooks are overpriced since they have the luxury of being required purchases.

 

[TwistedBishop]

Irrelevant. My statement is that the market has gradually undervalued in the years since 1985, and it is only now correcting itself following the bankruptcy of two major distributors and several publishers.

Undervalued according to who? College textbooks?

If you're trying to say that the entire industry should be charging $120 for books, that's just never going to fly.

Besides, many of the books printed in 2000 saw much larger print runs to reduce their cost

Actually, my expensive books from back then were from very small game lines and small publishers.

 

[Michael Morris]

Undervalued according to who? College textbooks?

If you're trying to say that the entire industry should be charging $120 for books, that's just never going to fly.

I'm not arguing that. I'm just arguing that gaming books have been undervalued quite a bit. Let's look at the real number here instead of the hype and compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges instead of muddying the waters by comparing dissimilar products.

"Luxury" books - Ptolus v. the Special Edition PHB
Ptolus' price / page cost is 20 cents / page (120 / 600)
PHB 3.5 SE price / page is 21 cents / page (70 / 320)

Normal accessories - Arcana Evolved vs. DMG II
Arcana Evolved is 11 cents / page (50 / 430)
DMG II is 13 cents / page (40 / 288)

For further comparison, the vaunted golden age of cheap - PHB 3.0 in 2000
PHB 3.0 15 cents / page (308 / 20)

And today
PHB 3.5 9 cents / page (320/30) - an actual drop though people whine about the 10 hike all the time.

And the theoretical 600 page book at 80 dollars would be 7.5 cents / page would be cheaper than any of these and way underpriced.

Let's pull in some non-gaming books.

Harry Potter & The Half Blood Prince - 9 cents / page (30 / 652) -- consider this despite the HUGE GINORMOUS initial print run this book enjoyed - probably more copies printed then every d20 book that will be printed in 2005 combined.

The O'Reilly Factor for Kids - 15 cents / page (23 / 208) -- again, a book with a much higher market penetration than any game book enjoys (but noticably smaller than a blockbuster like Harry Potter), yet it's cost / page is higher than typical game books.

Cast in this light the idea that any game publisher should put out a 600 page book at 80 bucks is seen for what it is - utterly ridiculous.

Book list prices provided by Amazon.com

 

[WildWeasel]

For further comparison, the vaunted golden age of cheap - PHB 3.0 in 2000
PHB 3.0 15 cents / page (308 / 20)

And today
PHB 3.5 9 cents / page (320/30) - an actual drop though people whine about the 10 hike all the time.

Math oopsies! Looks like you got price/page reversed here. The original run 3.0 PHB was 6.5 cents/page ($20/308 pages) and the 3.5 PHB is 9.4 cents/page ($30/320 pages).

However, the original run of the 3.0 corebooks was done at a size unprecendent in the RPG industry, so WotC was able to hit an economy of scale that even their own later print runs could not match. Let alone any other companies.

 

[Buttercup]

But I wouldn't buy Ptolus if I were Donald Trump. I think asking $120 for a gaming book is offensive.

Please don't be offended by this question, because that isn't my aim. But I don't understand.

Are you offended by the pricing on other luxury items? How about a $5000 entertainment center? A $10,000 diamond ring? A $350 jar of Beluga caviar? All of these items are highly priced, and except for the Beluga, their price has nothing to do with supply & demand. It's the same principle, really.

Now, I have no real interest in Ptolus. But if Monte is really spending a year of his company's resources on this product, the price doesn't seem surprising to me. I completely understand if people decide not to buy it, either because they're not interested or they can't afford it.

It's the moral high dudgeon that is perplexing me.

 

[2WS-Steve]

800 pages of Sigil

Actually I hope WotC gets on the big book bandwagon and puts out an 800-1000 page book on Sigil -- complete with Thomas Guide level of detail map (well, maybe not that detailed) and whatever updated Planescape stuff they'd need.

It seems the one big book would be a good way to handle some of the older campaign settings that still have a fan base that wants something, but not a large enough fan base to support a full line.

 

[WildWeasel]

It's the moral high dudgeon that is perplexing me.

Same here. Especially since Ptolus seems to be offering just as much content, let alone functionaly and aesthetics, as most any $120 worth of individual RPG supplements.

 

[philreed]

Actually I hope WotC gets on the big book bandwagon and puts out an 800-1000 page book on Sigil -- complete with Thomas Guide level of detail map (well, maybe not that detailed) and whatever updated Planescape stuff they'd need.

It seems the one big book would be a good way to handle some of the older campaign settings that still have a fan base that wants something, but not a large enough fan base to support a full line.

I seriously doubt this would happen. I think if WotC was to do a "big product for a big price" product we would see a massive D&D Miniatures set with a lot of specifict figures, some random figures, maps, and books. Hell, maybe the new map/adventure packs are testing the market for just such a project.

$100-$200 for a "campaign in a box" -- isn't that just the thing Ryan Dancey predicted a few years ago?