GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[Michael Morris]

So a $60 hardcover would be based on 1985 prices? I somehow doubt that in the past few years since 3E began printing costs have risen 300%.

3e's only been around since 2000. Since 1985 printing costs have gone up around 400%

A quality book can be had at $10 per 100 pages from any number of publishers in the industry. Are all these people supposed to be losing money?

The size of the print run factors into the cost of a book enormously. Bill O'Reilly's latest political book may be $10 at 100 pages, but that's cause 10 million of the things were printed.

Printers, and indeed all manufacturers, reduce the per unit cost when you buy in bulk. Gaming books however cannot be printed in such large print runs.

One of the reasons that the book prices are going up is that all the publishers willing to charge peanuts for game books have went bankrupt. So the market is correcting itself.

 

[scourger]

I apprecaited the links yesterday as well as this thread. Unfortunately, this product comes at a time for me when a growing discomfort with D&D has blossomed into a general disinterest in the d20 game engine. The price isn't the deterrent for me. It's the scope. d20 D&D is complicated enough as a core game without several hundred additional pages of campaign setting information. And, I suspect that the adventures will be the very "classic" style of play that I'm just not too interested in at the moment.

Since it is supposed to emulate a travel guide, I decided that I could just buy a travel guidebook and use it for the kind of game I really want if I do run d20 again (and I need to get Unearthed Arcana anyway to see what options to implement in order to "fix" the game). Another realtive benefit of using a real travel book is that I'll be learning about a real place instead of another fictional game setting.

Luckily, I have a year to ponder it and see what develops for Ptolus.

 

[WildWeasel]

It works both ways really, some products will be made because that's what the audience demands, some will be that way, simply because that's what the audience will put up with. It's always disheartening when folks are told that it's just tough breaks that they're left out of the target audience, better luck next time. I think the hobby is too small for that attitude, same as "if you don't like it, don't buy it". I've often heard both said here and there, and then the next day a discussion of how the industry is in a slump.

If the audience is buying products it merely "puts up with", that's not the publishers' fault. Especially since there are a variety of options. In fact, over the last several years, between things like the PDF market and the first high-priced megaproducts, that variety has grown.

You know, I like a lot of the core ideas of several Palladium products. I dislike the mishmash mechanics and generally unuseful and unappealing (to me) layout and organization. However, Palladium and its customer base thinks these are good things. Obviousily, I'm not Palladium's target market. And that's OK. I don't rail against Palladium for not making what I want, but take my money elsewhere and buy stuff that I do want. Gods knows there's more of that than I have money to spend! So who am I to quibble that someone is putting stuff out that I don't want?

And if it is something that I do want, and is a megaproduct priced at $100+, that means I may have to not buy three other things I wanted, instead of one. It just means I have to consider the relative utility I'll derive from each, and make my purchases accordingly. And if my weekly or monthly budget is less than that, it means I might have to actually save a bit. So I have less seperate new things...but making purchasing decisions on "But I got four things instead of one!" or "But I need something new every month!" without considering "Does this book offer enough content and utility to justify $X, in relation to other things that I want?" seems kinda silly.

Yeah, poor gamers will have to make do without other things they want, and may have to save up for a few months to get a given megaproduct. More well off gamers still have to go without buying other things they want, they just amy not have to wait to save up for the megaproduct.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It works both ways really, some products will be made because that's what the audience demands, some will be that way, simply because that's what the audience will put up with. It's always disheartening when folks are told that it's just tough breaks that they're left out of the target audience, better luck next time. I think the hobby is too small for that attitude, same as "if you don't like it, don't buy it". I've often heard both said here and there, and then the next day a discussion of how the industry is in a slump.

The industry isn't in a slump. The industry has never been better. Take a good look, because these are the salad days.

 

[TwistedBishop]

3e's only been around since 2000. Since 1985 printing costs have gone up around 400%

Two seperate issues here. I was asking if, in the five years since 3E, prices had risen 300%. The most expensive book from 2000 I own is around $40 for a hardcover, at the standard 100pgs./$10 rate.

 

[Vocenoctum]

The industry isn't in a slump. The industry has never been better. Take a good look, because these are the salad days.

I know D&D is doing better than ever (well, according to WotC). Most of what I've heard in regard to RPG's in general is a "slump" though. Hard to tell on the Errrornet of course, but that's what I've seen.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Interesting point about the softcover market. Malhavoc Press is one of the few "second-tier" d20 companies actively supporting the $20- price point, softcover book. I think that's a great thing because it fits my budget well.

 

[Tetsubo]

The industry isn't in a slump. The industry has never been better. Take a good look, because these are the salad days.

I'd have to agree. Which is why I am so sad my fininaces have taken a nosedive. No new gaming books for me until 2007...

But I wouldn't buy Ptolus if I were Donald Trump. I think asking $120 for a gaming book is offensive.

 

[Michael Morris]

Two seperate issues here. I was asking if, in the five years since 3E, prices had risen 300%. The most expensive book from 2000 I own is around $40 for a hardcover, at the standard 100pgs./$10 rate.

Irrelevant. My statement is that the market has gradually undervalued in the years since 1985, and it is only now correcting itself following the bankruptcy of two major distributors and several publishers.

Besides, many of the books printed in 2000 saw much larger print runs to reduce their cost - leading to a market glut that burned the retails and caused a mini-crash in 2004, cumulating with the bankruptcy of Osseum (which almost took Green Ronin with it).

 

[WildWeasel]

But I wouldn't buy Ptolus if I were Donald Trump. I think asking $120 for a gaming book is offensive.

Why?