GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[catsclaw227]

My 1E Unearthed Arcana had pages separate within a week after I bought it.

Me too, I even bought two of them, but came out of their binding. My 1ed PH has the binding loose (2nd printing Sept 1978) and DMG had the spine come off (Revisded Edition December 1979) but that may have to do with wear.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

$100-$200 for a "campaign in a box" -- isn't that just the thing Ryan Dancey predicted a few years ago?

No, it's something I asked for a couple years ago, when John Nephew and some others asked the question: "what would cause you to drop $100 for an RPG product." I and several other posters wanted a campaign in a box. Something that'll take you from 1st to 20th level, that totally eliminates all the work I regularly to do DM a game. This include: color maps at both the tactical and the campaign level, miniatures (pre-painted, preferably, or even pre-cut cardboard heros), player handouts, props (and make them special), maybe even a CD full of MP3s to provide background music, with "cues" at the appropriate places.

Since then, we've seen World's Largest Dungeon at $100, and Shackled City at $60. Both approach what I want, but are not completely there yet. It's quite clear to me that we should have said that we were willing to pay $200-$300 for such a product, then maybe some publishers would step up to the plate and deliver.

Yes, I believe my entire group would probably be willing to chip in and buy such a product.

 

[TwistedBishop]

I'm not arguing that. I'm just arguing that gaming books have been undervalued quite a bit. Let's look at the real number here instead of the hype and compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges instead of muddying the waters by comparing dissimilar products.

<snip prices>

So Arcana Evolved is 11 cents a page. Why isn't Ptolus $77 dollars again? Did Cook lose money on AE? Was AE a bland book with absolutely no presentation? On the contrary, isn't his company incredibly healthy and popular? Is he living below the poverty line due to these prices?

Other than that comparison, I'm a loss for what this is hoping to prove. You're trying to justify a 300% price hike by looking at the cents-per-page of "The O'Reilly Factor for Kids"? I can find pop-up books that chime in at $1.20 a page too, should Ptolus cost $840?

 

[Vocenoctum]

My 1E Unearthed Arcana had pages separate within a week after I bought it.

My other ones are pretty good, though!

Mine too, I took it as a Gygaxian method of insuring I could put those pages where they belonged.
So, I had a set of UA covers in the corner, and all the pages were stuffed in my PHB and DMG

 

[catsclaw227]

I was looking at the art for the book and noticed that the image of The Ageless Titan (row 2 column 2) has what look like sibeccai. Is this a hint that there is Arcana Evolved tie in to Ptolus? Or was this just flavor imagery. Personally I would prefer (since I paid the full $120 for the presale) that all the text in the 1000+ total pages (including CD-ROM stuff) be set for d20 3.5, not AE, even though I like AE. I am paying for d20 3.5, I hope.

Maybe I just missed something here.

Catsclaw

 

[Kanegrundar]

Now that I think about it, I do think products like this run the risk of polarizing gamers (at least if they becomone a trend) - ones that can afford massive books and those who cannot. Certain posters here like to rub it in against poor people (which is something I notice, being poor ) and I suspect if this book trend continues, then things will get worse...

That's a possibly, but I really doubt that we'll see such books like Ptolus come out in wide abundance. Many companies simplay aren't going to be able to put that kind of money into a product and expect to sell enough to be profitable. I could be wrong there, but while I think we'll see a few more $100 + books, there won't be a ton of them. At least not enough to create such a disparity in the community that you're describing. Plus, I could see most books of that calibur being split up into pdf's like the way Ptolus is going to be. (Likely the way I'll be picking it up.)

On the point of some posters "rubbing it the noses" of those that can't afford it, well, that's such a prick thing to do, so the only good response to those people is to flat ignore them as jerks. I haven't noticed much (if any) of that attitude to far though.

Kane

 

[mythusmage]

I live well under the official poverty level. I can save up $20.00 a month for six months. I can do it, why not you?

It really isn't about the price or the value, it's that something like Ptolus hasn't been done before. Not really. Even The World's Largest Dungeon isn't relevant in this case, because The World's Largest Dungeon was really a mid-priced item writ large.

Ptolus is new, and new tends to be viewed with suspicion by certain parties. Some go so far as to insist such things should not be done, and get irate about it. In time the initial controversy will fade and Ptolus will be part of the scenary. (Could it be that Monte made the annoucement when he did so Ptolus and its price would be old hat by GenCon 2006?)

Will everything by priced at a Ptolus level? Not likely. Not everything warrants such care and consideration. At the same time I hope it means more publishers making the effort to improve the quality of their products, regardless of price.

The outrage will fade, more Ptolus level items will be produced, more mid and low priced items will appear, and someday sooner than you think an RPG item will be announced that will make Ptolus seem like a small thing.

News of the Future, 2010

Wizards of the Coast - based in Renton WA - today announced the upcoming 4th edition of the Dungeons & Dragons game will be released in two formats. A standard print edition with a cost of $40.00 a book for the three volumes, and a special "e-paper" edition for an e-paper book capable of holding all three volumes plus additional material at a price of $160.00. The e-paper book will have the physical dimensions of a standard gaming book and contain 200 physical pages. Each e-paper page able to display any page from the three standard books. Wizards also hopes to soon offer an e-paper book upgrade which allows the display of moving pictures and the recording of home rules, homebrew settings, and character records in the book's database.

Wizards of the Coast is the parent company of Paramount Studios and a division of Hasbro Inc.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I live well under the official poverty level. I can save up $20.00 a month for six months. I can do it, why not you?

Because that $20 a month is already being spent on current RPG books?

 

[Sunderstone]

Now that I think about it, I do think products like this run the risk of polarizing gamers (at least if they becomone a trend) - ones that can afford massive books and those who cannot. Certain posters here like to rub it in against poor people (which is something I notice, being poor ) and I suspect if this book trend continues, then things will get worse...

QFT


Onward..........

All this comparing to Cars, Diamonds, etc. makes me laugh. This is an RPG game book, a niche product at best. The other examples of cars and diamonds etc while luxuries they may be, are in fact mainstream everyday objects. Im in NYC myself, a car is very necessary. Diamonds....hmm... My 7 year anniversary is coming up, maybe Ill get her a copy of Ptolus rather than a $400 + Bracelet. I should probably make sure my medical coverage is up to par before I do so. There are things in life that are priorities, my long time gal pal deserves diamonds as opposed to my RPG habits. While owning diamonds are a luxury (that I can afford btw), its more commonplace than my dice rolling in Ptolus. Gaming is an RPG hobby that Ive played for over 20 years and still plan to play but I know where I draw a line compared to real world values.

As for Ferarris and Lamborghinis.... If I were rich I'd likely buy one. Im not rich so I wont. Paying $30-50 a week for gas expenses is enough for me atm.

At the risk of further flames, IMHO I think Monte charging such an excessive amount for Ptolus is rediculous. Again IMHO This is an attempt to cash in on his name while it's still hot. I wonder how far this book would go if it was under a different yet equally capable author's name.
ENworld (fans and brass alike) may not like hearing this type of comment about a fan-favorite author as well as the head of Malhavoc etc. but Im posting my piece on a public forum. I cant wait to see the reviews when its finally released.

As far as people complaining about my attitude on this topic, I was set off by post #37 (posted by Barak) here on the very first page. Its nice to see people ignore that kind of rudeness when it doesnt fit their opinion. I dont need anyone here telling me what Im willing to pay for. And I still say the car analogy is downright nuts to begin with.

 

[mythusmage]

Because that $20 a month is already being spent on current RPG books?

What other sacrifices could you make?