Gen Con: Slavicsek says core books will continue to be published, other tidbits

[Aegeri]

I suspect that niche will be filled with the release of Essentials. Apparently all races will be modified a la PH3, with every race having one fixed stat bonus, and a pick-one-of-these-two stat bonus.

I would bet on an existing race with con or one with int getting the other option as a choice. Half-Elves could be con/int for example.

 

[doctorhook]

Agreed. It's always struck me as odd that the race that created the infernal pact wasn't ideal at it.

Absolutely. Also consider that the eminently theocratic Drow race doesn't make for especially great Clerics in 4E, nor are they very good Wizards despite their other traditional affinity, wizardry. Also note that Genasi make poor Wild Sorcerers, despite the hand-in-glove thematic fit. Ditto for Kobold Dragon Sorcerers, even though dragon sorcery was their claim to fame in 3E.

I predict that with the release of Essentials, the tiefling will become an Int/Con or Cha race.

Personally, I think Gnomes will be Int/Con or Cha. While this doesn't preclude Tieflings from being the same, I rather think of Charisma as their best ability, and so I tend to think they might instead be Cha/Con or Int. We'll see, I guess.

Which I would counter with why you need more races than human.

Just because they are not a necessity does not mean that it wouldn't be wanted, or wouldn't make things balanced. But there are no races to make the Int/Con class combos on par with all the other combos that have races that make them advantageous.

At this point it's an issue of balance. Especially because there are several races that qualify for some. Str/Con and Int/Cha being the most prevalent. Thus you have several racial choices for Str/Con or Int/Cha to work with classes that facilitate those, but in some cases only one choice for the stat boost/class combo, and in the Con/Int case, none.

It's unbalanced.


And since every other class has a defacto choice, why shouldn't warlocks get one?

Good points, all around. Overall, I think we're hitting the main reasons why racial ability score bonuses are problematic as a means of differentiating races.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Apparently all races will be modified a la PH3, with every race having one fixed stat bonus, and a pick-one-of-these-two stat bonus.

I expect that I'm in the minority here, but this is actually one of the few tidbits we've seen about the Essentials line that I don't care for.

It's not a seething hate or anything. It won't ruin my experience, and it's not a big deal. But if I had my druthers, the game wouldn't have gone that way.

I applaud what I think/believe/imagine the intent was: to make the existing races more flexible, and expand them beyond their existing niches. But what I believe the effect is going to be is actually a reverse-sort of pigeonholing. A lot of people will choose a class, and then only pick a race that can contribute two relevant ability bumps. Instead of "Gee, most dwarves and goliaths are fighters," we'll see "Gee, most fighters are dwarves or goliaths."

IOW, what was meant to be a tool of options becomes a tool primarily of min/maxing, and then a straightjacket where if you aren't playing one of the "right" races for your class, you'll be accused, in some groups, of doing it wrong.

But then, I've finally come around to the belief that the game's hypothetical next edition (in a long, long time ) should slaughter the sacred cow of racial stat bonuses, and mechanically differentiate the races entirely with nifty little abilities/powers/quirks.

Edit: Come to think of it, that'd be a great use for the new "theme" mechanic. When you pick your race, you get that race's default theme. If you want to choose a different theme, you can do so, but then you're choosing to deliberately minimize the impact of your race for some other background element of your character. And of course, you can't choose a racial theme for a race not your own.

 

[doctorhook]

But then, I've finally come around to the belief that the game's hypothetical next edition (in a long, long time ) should slaughter the sacred cow of racial stat bonuses, and mechanically differentiate the races entirely with nifty little abilities/powers/quirks.

Edit: Come to think of it, that'd be a great use for the new "theme" mechanic. When you pick your race, you get that race's default theme. If you want to choose a different theme, you can do so, but then you're choosing to deliberately minimize the impact of your race for some other background element of your character. And of course, you can't choose a racial theme for a race not your own.

Ari, GTFO (of) my head, please. I was just brainstorming racial themes to replace racial stat bonuses in my home game, following my post above yours. Whoa. Weird, non?

EDIT: Apparently I cannot XP you again so soon. Why I would want to XP someone who steals my thoughts is beyond me, but I try to be a good sport about most things.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Tieflings having Con/Int as an alternate is the thing I want the least. It doesn't fit the flavour of the Tiefling race, when it's probably better they have Dex as the alternate ability score. And knowing how Essentials is treating the classes all essentials Warlocks will be Cha based anyways, so there will be no need for Tieflings to have a Con bonus to be good as Warlocks.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Statbumps were nice when stats were actually rolled, as a part of beeing able to customize your stats. When stats are chosen, it is pure a powergamers choice.

What i could however imagine is races having different basestats depending on race.

Maybe the elf looks like this:
Str 10, Con 8, dex 12, int 10, wis 12, cha 10

And you increase and decrease as normal. This would make the choice unique, but you can´t break the limits, any race can achieve.

Maybe increase point buy stats by 2-4 points!

 

[TerraDave]

Did they say that, or are you making stuff up?

Jesus H Christ indeed.

To be fair, that could be a reference to the errata, but, also to be fair, the errata is nowhere near being of significant volume to invalidate the current PHB1.

I didn't say invalidate. I said as is. There's a lot of errata for the PHB I, and more is comming (race changes, wizard power changes, magic item changes).

I will leave it to others to rant on the brokeness of MMI they can. Or you can see it in several other posts made on the matter in this forum.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

But then, I've finally come around to the belief that the game's hypothetical next edition (in a long, long time ) should slaughter the sacred cow of racial stat bonuses, and mechanically differentiate the races entirely with nifty little abilities/powers/quirks.

Edit: Come to think of it, that'd be a great use for the new "theme" mechanic. When you pick your race, you get that race's default theme. If you want to choose a different theme, you can do so, but then you're choosing to deliberately minimize the impact of your race for some other background element of your character. And of course, you can't choose a racial theme for a race not your own.

a mix of this, absolutely kill the stat bonus and use powers/abilities/quirks, but keep also the theme mechanics for other things (they work best with special trainings IMO)

btw we had a beautifull Dragon article by Steve Townshend on character orgins that introduce a mechanic similar to divine boon in character creation... it's very interesting and I think on a different level could work for racial boons

the article is for insider only here: Origin Stories

 

[YRUSirius]

I didn't say invalidate. I said as is. There's a lot of errata for the PHB I, and more is comming (race changes, wizard power changes, magic item changes).

I will leave it to others to rant on the brokeness of MMI they can. Or you can see it in several other posts made on the matter in this forum.

Suboptimal isn't broken.

-YRUSirius

 

[thundershot]

Anything on a PHB 4 yet?