General Discussion Thread VIII

[Bront]

Perhaps someone should submit a proposal to revise the craft point system (Maybe double points or something, as well as remove the craft masterwork feat, and maybe make the extra craft point feat worth more (I'd have it grow in value every time you took it personaly).

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Here's a thought. keep the craft masterwork feat, but remove the need to pay an extra materials cost for the 'masterwork component." You still pay the equivelent craft point increase (or even a bit more*) but the extra cost to the buyer is strictly compensating you for your expertise (skills & feat) and your time and effort (craft points).

*I think with craft points you could concievably have a system to more fluidly represent the difference balance of crafting effort vs raw materials different crafts would have, but that quickly gets more detailed than most peoplewant or need in that aspect of the game....

 

[El Jefe]

Well, our concern is to allow someone to actually use the feat without flooding the market with 1,001 rods of rulership (or vorpal swords, or ...), right? So, how about awarding a certain number of crafting points whenever someone levels, followed by additional awards per month for those not adventuring. So, you can either get xp for going on an adventure (even it it gets stalled), or you can get craft points for "not adventuring". All you have to do is limit the number of "sitting on your butt craft points per level per month" to some reasonable amount, and a character can continue to craft past the first allottment of points without cranking out too many "fabulous" items.

 

[LogicsFate]

Well, our concern is to allow someone to actually use the feat without flooding the market with 1,001 rods of rulership (or vorpal swords, or ...), right? So, how about awarding a certain number of crafting points whenever someone levels, followed by additional awards per month for those not adventuring. So, you can either get xp for going on an adventure (even it it gets stalled), or you can get craft points for "not adventuring". All you have to do is limit the number of "sitting on your butt craft points per level per month" to some reasonable amount, and a character can continue to craft past the first allottment of points without cranking out too many "fabulous" items.

But is the concern valid? I know it's possible, but crafting magic allready has such high level requirments, and high monetary costs to handle that it's a long way till we may have to deal with someone like that.

 

[Xael]

EDIT: I was talking nonsense again, ignore.

 

[Bront]

Here's a thought. keep the craft masterwork feat, but remove the need to pay an extra materials cost for the 'masterwork component." You still pay the equivelent craft point increase (or even a bit more*) but the extra cost to the buyer is strictly compensating you for your expertise (skills & feat) and your time and effort (craft points).

*I think with craft points you could concievably have a system to more fluidly represent the difference balance of crafting effort vs raw materials different crafts would have, but that quickly gets more detailed than most peoplewant or need in that aspect of the game....

That makes the feat worth while to get, but then could cause issues of people flooding the market with Masterwork items.

Craft Points have some potential, but the flaw is basicly that it has a limit as well, and concevably, a character could be limited by them eventualy sooner or later. Not realy in the case of masterwork items (though the system also increased the base cost of non-magical items as well, which is a sticking point for several people as well).

What if there was a feat that reduced the craft point cost of items in half? Would that make the system much more bearable?

I know other systems for living games simply use the craft feats to give you a discount on the price of items, and you have to buy everything (Magic items at least), but that's for a face to face game, so might be a different issue.

 

[Knight Otu]

The craft point system has not been the most popular rules change around here, though it did partially inspire me to play a Craft-based character once we have a job system... which I had to end up proposing when it didn't happen.

The craft point limitation was a concern pretty much from the start, and we pretty much promised that there would be more ways to gain craft points. Especially for caster types, who need many Craft points to create anything. That's part of why a) the magecrafter gets more Craft points per week, b) the magecrafter requires a higher level to get into. As for the in-game reasoning - even selling low-powered items, a magecrafter will get more money, especially if he has a reputation as a good crafter (essentially, being higher level/has more Item Creation feats).

So, how about awarding a certain number of crafting points whenever someone levels...

Unless I'm missing something, that already happens.

followed by additional awards per month for those not adventuring.

That's what I proposed the job system for.

Craft Masterwork Item.
Well... to be honest, I don't like it either. Those who have Unearthed Arcana know that it was an Upgrade already from the tons of feats the official Craft point rules had... I wouldn't be adverse to turning it into some sort of Craft Improved Item, allowing alchemy for non-casters, and some other benefits...

 

[El Jefe]

That's what I proposed the job system for.

Wow, did I ever miss that. At first glance, the job system struck me as a way "spare" characters could make some gold when not actively adventuring. I didn't notice the craft points for the Craftsman and Magecrafter professions, but there they are. I guess it wasn't obvious to me that the whole job system was created for the benefit of those who qualified for two out of all the listed jobs.

There's one small flaw in all of this. What if a character has crafting skill (any, even 1 point in it) or a crafting feat and doesn't take one of those jobs? Does that mean the character gets the level-based craft points and once those are spent, that's it? On one hand, a character who is either adventuring all the time or working a non-crafting job shouldn't have nearly as much time to spend on crafting as one who does work at a craft-based job all day (by, I'm guessing, a factor of 6 or so). But that doesn't mean they wouldn't have any time to spend crafting...there are always evenings, weekends, and holidays.

 

[Knight Otu]

Ok, so it is part of what the job system is for. If anyone wants to propose additional ways to gain Craft points, just go ahead. At this point, I don't think we can get rid of the system anymore, but maybe we can turn it into something that is more likeable for the majority.

Also, I guess more than two jobs may gain additional Craft points. The architect, for example, propably should get additional craft points as well.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, for starters, we should allow people in adventures to make items without spending any craft points if they spend the appropriate time inside the adventure (we don't allow this yet, right?). So for instance, Bob the Cleric, who ran out of Craft Points because there are so few, wants to make a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. But he's on an adventure. But he also has everything he needs to make it in the village where they are resting. And all the other PCs want the wand too, so they agree to wait a day in the village. This should work without costing Craft Points, since the point of the Craft Points is to allow crafting when you don't have the in-game time.